Difficulty of normal content.

[Banggugyangu]

Attacking and belittling others because not everyone meets your skill expectations? News flash: Not everyone plays the game for the challenge or has time to repeatedly wipe to learn complex tactics and dances in these fights. Many people have other things going on than just this game (kids, family, work, other hobbies, health reasons; take your pick), people who just play the game... you know... to have some fun?

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

The fact that you interpreted what you quoted as an attack proves that you didn't comprehend what Arohk actually said there. It wasn't a statement of "Have they never played a game in their lives? They Suck!" Instead, it was what I've said multiple times: "Do they really not know that all games require the player to grow in skill level as the game progresses?" I've stated a few times already in this thread, but the expectation of skill growth that the Devs have demonstrated in Dawntrail is NOT unreasonable. It does NOT expect an expert level of play by any stretch of the word. As I mentioned in my most recent previous comment, the majority of the "difficulty" is really just a paradigm shift of needing to actually pay attention to what's happening with the boss and the arena instead of just staring at your hotbars. This expansion was the devs telling the playerbase to improve... The same way that literally EVERY FINAL FANTASY GAME has told their players to improve. If you have played any other Final Fantasy game at all, then you've experienced this very same thing in those as well.

[Besame]

Attacking and belittling others because not everyone meets your skill expectations? News flash: Not everyone plays the game for the challenge or has time to repeatedly wipe to learn complex tactics and dances in these fights. Many people have other things going on than just this game (kids, family, work, other hobbies, health reasons; take your pick), people who just play the game... you know... to have some fun?

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

I agree with you but get ready to be bullied repeatedly by fanboys. I gave up posting why and now just /support the cause.

[Connor]

Honestly it’s kinda bizarre to me that people can say ‘I want it to be so easy I don’t have to think about my performance, gear, or party in any way and it should never change’. Like, as mentioned above literally no game in existence works that way? Even that goddamn Snake game on the old mobiles has progressive difficulty.

The idea that content difficulty should remain literally identical between level 50 and level 100 content just doesn’t make any sense lol. I certainly can’t think of any games where the difficulty level literally does not increase through the game’s duration.

[Banggugyangu]

Honestly it’s kinda bizarre to me that people can say ‘I want it to be so easy I don’t have to think about my performance, gear, or party in any way and it should never change’. Like, as mentioned above literally no game in existence works that way? Even that goddamn Snake game on the old mobiles has progressive difficulty.

The idea that content difficulty should remain literally identical between level 50 and level 100 content just doesn’t make any sense lol. I certainly can’t think of any games where the difficulty level literally does not increase through the game’s duration.

People got too drunk on dopamine and have become addicted to it. Anymore, if gaming doesn't constantly hit them with dopamine, then they rage quit.

[ArielTimeshrine]

Attacking and belittling others because not everyone meets your skill expectations? News flash: Not everyone plays the game for the challenge or has time to repeatedly wipe to learn complex tactics and dances in these fights. Many people have other things going on than just this game (kids, family, work, other hobbies, health reasons; take your pick), people who just play the game... you know... to have some fun?

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

I'm sorry, the very fact that you are all unwilling to wipe to the content at all means that you just feel entitled to success and don't understand how or why people find video gaming fun. You are supposed to be challenged. This is something games have strived to do since the dawn of video gaming. You are expected to learn, adapt, and overcome. What is a common theme in the story arcs of 14? A character, or a group of characters, is faced with stiff opposition, adapt, and eventually overcome said opposition. This was the case with the Ascians. This was the case with being stripped of the Blessing. This was the case with Zenos. This was the case with Endwalker. This is the case with Wuk Lamat and Bakool Ja Ja. If you cannot learn to adapt and overcome a challenge, then I am tempted to unironically say that no, you do not, infact, deserve to complete the content. You are playing the game and reading the story and fundamentally failing to learn from even that, let alone the content that goes with the story. You are failing at even immersing yourself in MSQ. Do you not go through the story and feel any moment where you're resolved to overcome somebody? Some form of challenge? I will wager you don't. You wouldn't care enough to.

[ArielTimeshrine]

And who is the arbiter on where the line is? It is quite clear the game has gone a bit too far.

These past few weeks, we have already seen the consequences. I've had several roulettes for dungeons and raids where half the group quit after the first wipe. We used to make fun of this - a problem the other MMOs had... NOT FFXIV. We prided how we soldier on, we wipe and just have another go!

We prided on how we soldier on, wipe and just have another go!

You said it yourself. If people are no longer doing that, then those people are quite literally going against your own description of the community at large. Maybe those people, too, aren't fit for this game and jumped in because Endwalker got a little too pampering, rather than that the game is "going too far" when wiping to mechanics, picking ourselves back up and trying again is literally something you yourself said we do and completely demolishes any credibility to your argument.

[Gullis]

And who is the arbiter on where the line is? It is quite clear the game has gone a bit too far.!

Clearly you are. Content is already starting to become a joke again, because of new gear being released. nothing needs to change

[VanillaWafer]

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

Then why play video games at all?

I'm sorry, but this laidback approach belongs in Second Life, IMVU, or VRChat. It's giving, "Yeah guys, I'm just here to vibe and chill."

Okay, cool, but I want to get the instance done and be on my way.

Is that toxic? No. While I'm not here to smell the flowers if I'm on a roulette, I can and will be patient enough to help if someone speaks up. People would be happy to give out pointers on how to answer hard mechanics, just like many have stated here in this forum thread. I do not expect perfection as I'm just in there to do my job and get compensated for it (Tomestones, gil, etc.). The only thing I expect for anyone else in my party is to try to do their best in their ability. If your best looks like you messing up here and there in regular content, so long that you're not intentionally griefing/trolling, that's okay. Heck, I mess up, too. I'm not perfect.

However, it becomes a problem when you just give up and not learn the mechanics and your job kit. I am well aware that learning isn't an issue for OP, but if they're repeatedly failing a mechanic, it's most likely not the game's fault. It's likely OP. Whether it's actual internet issues or actual skill issue, you should want to adapt and solve. Seeing this thread existing is somewhat bizarre as it flies in the face of why people play games.

At the end of the day, dumbing things down for a very tiny minority will not help anyone in the long run. Not you, and not the devs, either. To those with disabilities or real-life responsibilities that affect your gameplay, I do feel you, but you shouldn't make it the dev's responsibility to keep catering to you when it comes to difficulty. You need to manage that on your own. No matter when you started, you have jobs at lv 100 now, the training wheels era ended back at lv 50.

While this game does allow for that kind of casual, laidback content, there is a time and a place for them. Dungeons, trials, and raids never were those places. It's a shame that Endwalker pampered you so well to have an opinion like this.

Edit: I do want to pose a question to OP and those in favor: Why are you doing normal mode raids? If you're not preparing yourself for Savage, why go through with it in the first place?

[ArielTimeshrine]

I do not expect perfection as I'm just in there to do my job and get compensated for it (Tomestones, gil, etc.). The only thing I expect for anyone else in my party is to try to do their best in their ability. If your best looks like you messing up here and there in regular content, so long that you're not intentionally griefing/trolling, that's okay. Heck, I mess up, too. I'm not perfect.

However, it becomes a problem when you just give up and not learn the mechanics and your job kit.

Big agree. As a side tangent to this, it is unfortunate and sad how many people intentionally conflate elitism with an expectation of effort. I would like to get it done and dusted because I am showing up in a roulette for a reason and I expect that people at least try to kill the content at a reasonable speed and try to do better. It isn't necessary to be very optimal but I expect you to at least try and follow the Rule of Threes for AoEs, to not be half-AFK (or fully AFK, nowadays), to try and do damage on a healer, ect. if you aren't new. That's not called being elitist, that's called wanting to be reasonable. And yet, people shout you down for being "elitist" if you speak up about anybody, put their fingers in their ears and keep repeating "it isn't Savage" as a mantra because they simply cannot be bothered to put the slightest bit of effort in. They want to make everything other peoples' responsibility because "it's a game, let me play how I want and have fun!".

What about other peoples' fun then? Who the hell do they think they are to be more important than 3 or 7 other people?

[alfarini]

To expect everyone "get good, learn to play" to your level of expectation is... well.. the very definition of toxicity.

Main character energy here. We expect people to at least engage in the game enough to not be complete dead weight. Minimal effort is more than enough for 80 percent of the content. Ofc I'd rather it be more than minimal but beggers can't be choosers right?

Imagine if you were an npc in the games main story who just wins all the time. Never having to fail even once. Your perfect in every way. That's such a boring character and everyone would comments on that fact.

Now flip it back as the player, you never fail, never wipe, and you need not expend more than what's needed to clear a fight. This is what the hyper casuals want out of the game. How boring is that? Does that really sound fun? No I doubt you would say it is. Games should be engaging, fun and challenging. It's a fine line to get that right, currently ff14 is fun, but engaging? Its got a ways to go before it settels on that tight rope walk.

It is in now way toxic for the majority of the player base to want someone engaging fun and challenging in a nice balancing act. It is however pretty entitled of people wanting the game to cater to all people and not be at a target audience. A game for everyone is a game for nobody.

If players can't understand that the games just not catered to them or does not offer something that is of interest? that's their issue and should not affect the player base who actually cares about the health of it. Why play a game that your not engaged with? not having fun with how the direction of the game is going? Do what yoshi P has Said a few times before. Play a different game if you don't have anything to do/don't like the content that's out.

Entitlement to brain dead easy peezy mode in normal optional content and even in msq to make it even more brain dead. Is laughably sad.