Difficulty of normal content.

[caffe_macchiato]

I don't think the netcode or lag is a problem when my south american friends and I can easily clear all the content with our crap connection/ PCs. You just have to do some minimal extra planning at most.

You could clear fine, but that extra planning increases the chances of being "clipped". These new raids have faster and more frequent mechanics with more ambiguous hitboxes. As a previous poster put it, the devs know the limitations of their own engine and tested it to make sure the "snapshotting" or "clipping" wasn't too bad. But, as previous interviews showed, they test with a 30 ping average. With a 60 ping, your chances for being "clipped" increase. And with that chance, there are more players (like OP) who will run into issues with the design without knowing why (after all, "snapshotting" isn't normal for video games). This makes the game look unfair to anyone who is used to the slow Endwalker style where medium ping is acceptable. Low-ping players will find their complaints baffling, which is what you see in this thread. High-ping gamers already have skills to mitigate this, so they might also not find any issue.

These new raids are likely going to be the ceiling for normal-mode content since it's clear the devs have reached the limit. I hope the other posters in this thread relish while they can in whatever glory can get from winning this argument online, because there's not much else the devs can add without more dissenters being made.

I feel they have hit the nail on the head this time around with difficulty of normal raids.

70% of the new raids are great. I too have been asking for more difficult "mid-core" content and the raids are good. But the other 30% consists of being "clipped" by overlapping mechanics, which feels unfair to someone with medium (40-100) ping when you're doing exactly what others are doing and don't get hit. The only way not to get hit is to intentionally go into the mechanic so that you "clip-dodge". I have had to do this far more often than usual. I predict that "clip-dodging" will be a go-to strategy for content going forward if the mechanics are too fast.

For example: in M4, there is a classic "back-forth" mechanic. You move to one half of the area then move to the other half, repeated a couple of times. But if you wait in the safe zone until the cast bar for the unsafe zone is done, you're too late. You need to go into the zone while the cast/animation is telling you not to.

[Theswweet]

That's a crazy thing to say, considering P8S was the roadblock for progging TOP, which is unequivocally the hardest content in the game.

[talloran]

I have been playing this game for ten years (this is not my first character). Why should I be forced to leave the game because I agree with Yoshida that the netcode is poorly fit for the mechanics they designed? Should Yoshida leave too, since he and I agree on this issue? And I know that's a possibility because many people's previous MMO (WoW) also saw the directors leave. And the game failed because of that. So are you sure you want everyone who disagrees with you to be forced out?

You are using a minute increase in difficulty as an excuse to lash out at those who have differing opinions about the content. That is the most troubling aspect. Some people have been waiting for three years to do this and are now finally having the opportunity to express a highly negative and elitist attitude like they used to do in other games. It's not a good sign for the FFXIV community.

oooh playing the veteran card now? still don't care. we will not shelter lazy players anymore. get out and take OP with you.

[zeenie]

That's what I am thinking, I keep saying the difficulty is misplaced. We're not exactly looking like an appealing community right? I'm not even in agreement with some of the OPs statements but the outright bullying and abuse is disgusting.

i dont think the difficulty misplaced tbh. both endgame dungeon are a bit more challenging but not that difficult. idk people still finding excuses and not learning and taking lazy route of complain.

[Connor]

i dont think the difficulty misplaced tbh. both endgame dungeon are a bit more challenging but not that difficult. idk people still finding excuses and not learning and taking lazy route of complain.

Having run through experts a bunch to gear up I’ve found that the difficulty for endgame dungeons seems to have actually already disappeared. Outside of that abomination Leonogg I barely ever see vuln stacks, much less someone taking actual damage that requires healing and not just letting Eos do it lol

[Sol_Seppy]

LMAO yes...

for p8s before patch fix? maybe, almost definitely yes.
for p8s after and especially p10?! no lol

[alfarini]

for p8s before patch fix? maybe, almost definitely yes.

so you admit he was right, he never stated what patch. it was still overturned at one point in time. regardless of how it is now.

[Sol_Seppy]

so you admit he was right, he never stated what patch. it was still overturned at one point in time. regardless of how it is now.

I concede to p8s if he was referring to before patch, yes. I'm not above being wrong. But p10s is a complete stretch and I stand by that.

[Scarletelf]

I feel you, I see you. I understand that mechanics can be harder to learn for people! If you’re struggling, or anyone really, is struggling to go through msq with trusts, I recommend going as a tank! You can step in most aoes and so long as your spread your dmg mitigations, you will not die to your accumulating vuln stacks.

I’ve had a friend with crippling anxiety and was frustrated with how much this games expects you to be. I don’t think it’s hard at all, but there is a large population of first time mmo players and gamers enjoying this game. I don’t think it’s right asking for optional content, which is designed to weave people into the harder content to be made easier. Fundamentally I think that’ll leave a wider gap of knowledge/expectations to transition into harder stuff. There are casual friendly optional systems to engage with however, try crafting, gathering, housing (apartments because the lotto is suffering), gold saucer, exc! If it’s combat you’re craving, Fates are good, bozja/eureka can be fun as well. If you wait until 7.05-7.1, treasure maps will have their dungeons unlocked, but I am expecting the difficulty might be more reflective of current stuff.

[jdtuggey]

Look 'ma, it's the thread that's on tv!

Just want to throw my opinion here, am a casual, have been since ARR, I don't want to commit and maintain a schedule, I don't want the game to be difficult to the point of being frustrating, I also don't want to feel like I have to commit like I used to on wow. Am mostly on the game because I enjoy leveling, running dungeons and making my friends smile, yet, since shadowbringers on a lesser level and then endwalker, I've felt I've been left behind. None of the content that I reasonably want to engage in challenges me anymore. Dawntrail feels like a step in the right direction to restore what was lost to me in that transition to accomodate more players.

Like, people that are struggling with dawntrail and expressing it in this thread feel like they're missing context, that the only FFXIV they've ever known is SHB and beyond, so they feel slighted, but to a player like me, they took the bar too low for low commitment content, and they are readjusting it. They aren't making a new move out of nowhere here from my perspective, they're fixing mistakes they made in the past. There's also another dimension to understand in this, they can't cater to everyone reasonably, there's a range of players that any given game will cater to, and when they made changes to difficulty in SHB, they did not widen that range, they dragged it to another place in the spectrum, and that left a wide gap between experts/normal raids and savage. Like, to think that they could cater to every player is kinda utopian ? Holding CBU3 to that standard is pretty unreasonable to me. Alternatively, you have the ultimate choice, you can choose not to engage in content that is too hard for you up to yeah, not engaging with the game anymore.

Unexpected difficulty is always jarring at first in a video game, but as you try and try, your standards readjust, you become better, and that's a reward in and of itself. Personally, am pleased by the slight increase in difficulty and how much more dynamic fights are, keeps me attentive and on my feet. And well, I'm a parent-aged gamer well past my prime.

One last thing, let's not forget to put the "dawntrail too hard" criticisms against "endwalker braindead" criticism, just to show the reality that no matter what CBU3 will do, people will complain. It's their game, not mine, so I prefer to defer to them and when the game goes south for me, I speak with my money. I'm willing to bet that this thread made it so many people who wouldn't throw their voice in the mix do so in the end, and from what I can tell, this ultimately worked against the opinion that dawntrail is too hard, which I would describe as "counter-productive". :P