square enix: we need to talk about hunts and why you refuse to address the HP issue

[KageTokage]

I'm gonna drop a controversial take as someone who used to enjoy hunts in Stormblood.

The zergfest trains are the problem. Players from other servers should not be able to claim credit on hunts outside of their home world.

I am fully aware that many are gonna hate this message, but hunts used to be a great community activity until every A-rank turned into a 200+ player zerg with the advent of world visit.

It's an awful system and puts you at the mercy of your platform being reasonably fast, not having potato connection and praying to gods you've never seen that the instance doesn't start having a stroke.

I understand it is incredibly efficient this way which is why I think rewards would need to be adjusted accordingly for the reduction on available hunts per player.

But zerging sucks and I'm tired of staying silent about this. World visit ruined the community aspect of hunting in favour of efficiency rushing.

I've felt this way from like...the first week cross-server was introduced.

It's now further exasperated by all of the hunt detecting add-ons making their locations/spawns public knowledge to everybody on the DC nowdays.

[KisaiTenshi]

I've felt this way from like...the first week cross-server was introduced.

It's now further exasperated by all of the hunt detecting add-ons making their locations/spawns public knowledge to everybody on the DC nowdays.

This is why people using them should be banned, that is blatant cheating. Players even benefitting from people broadcasting that, are also bad faith joining the hunts, know they are cheating.

Anyway Square Enix should randomize the hunts and scale them differently. One other MMO basically made it impossible for players to "nuke every field boss from orbit" the second it spawns from people flipping channels/shards/servers by making it so that there is a cooldown on the actual transfer, and that the actual cooldowns are longer than the fights.

So:
1) Scale based on players in the zone when hit, rescale at the half way point to make it harder or easier
2) Don't reward for one hit and running off. Players who don't do 2% of the damage just don't get credit
3) CD the boss and then respawn in different locations and make the boss "roam" once spawned. Spawn in different places on different servers.
4) Prevent zone-in's near the hunt. (eg Aetheryte's closest to hunts are disabled once the boss is pulled)

But I digress, I think the amount of complaints are people just complaining about being unable to get the free-easy hunts because others poach them first from using cheating tools.

[Eyrilona]

4) Prevent zone-in's near the hunt. (eg Aetheryte's closest to hunts are disabled once the boss is pulled)

That wouldn't work, I'm afraid. It has no consideration for Gatherers and people doing quests or Treasure Maps or, you know, any other reason to use an aetheryte to get to a zone/area.

Your points 1-3 also come riddled with problems I'm afraid. For one thing, requiring a 2% contribution means that most people will never get the reward at all. Even a theoretical math optimization means only 50 people can do damage to the mark, and in reality because nobody can manage their output anywhere near that accurate, you are effectively limiting hunt groups to maybe twenty people (let's say 24 because one alliance worth of players is a nice size) ... but without any way to make sure no more than that many players arrive at the scene in the open world. So people will be angry with everyone else for making it impossible for anyone to get 2% for themselves, and toxicity would destroy the hunt scene entirely.

To accomplish what you want, you would need to not have the Hunt Mark on the open world map, but instead make it an instanced event that only lets, say, 24 people inside at a time. Congratulations, you have invented single-boss alliance raids.

[KageTokage]

This is why people using them should be banned, that is blatant cheating. Players even benefitting from people broadcasting that, are also bad faith joining the hunts, know they are cheating.

Anyway Square Enix should randomize the hunts and scale them differently. One other MMO basically made it impossible for players to "nuke every field boss from orbit" the second it spawns from people flipping channels/shards/servers by making it so that there is a cooldown on the actual transfer, and that the actual cooldowns are longer than the fights.

So:
1) Scale based on players in the zone when hit, rescale at the half way point to make it harder or easier
2) Don't reward for one hit and running off. Players who don't do 2% of the damage just don't get credit
3) CD the boss and then respawn in different locations and make the boss "roam" once spawned. Spawn in different places on different servers.
4) Prevent zone-in's near the hunt. (eg Aetheryte's closest to hunts are disabled once the boss is pulled)

But I digress, I think the amount of complaints are people just complaining about being unable to get the free-easy hunts because others poach them first from using cheating tools.

Point number 2 aggravates me the most because I've seen S ranks reset and minions despawn multiple times because they decided to randomly target some lazy bum who tapped them then ran into the distance.

I think just requiring them to remain with 50 yards of the hunt to get credit would work since they're still exposed to the hunt's mechanics at that distance and less likely to trigger a reset.

This is a community made problem. Hunting stopped being fun the moment they opened cross server travel. Those encounters were never designed to be merged down by literal trains.

They should still adjust to it regardless...and they seem to have already done so for the boss FATEs this go-around given that they can scale hard enough that even 300 players take a while to kill them.

[Menriq]

Point number 2 aggravates me the most because I've seen S ranks reset and minions despawn multiple times because they decided to randomly target some lazy bum who tapped them then ran into the distance.

I think just requiring them to remain with 50 yards of the hunt to get credit would work since they're still exposed to the hunt's mechanics at that distance and less likely to trigger a reset.

Counter point to the bolded. Could it perhaps be that people are trying to allow more people to get credit but not killing it quickly? On Dynamis, my experience has been when a mark is early pulled, people will tag and then hold off until the pulled timer.

I also am not sure about the people who think people are cheating. Many trains are scouted (I've done a few myself) and you just fly around to the different spawn points, report them, and then when the train is called, the conductor announces each mark in order. For S ranks, people will do checks (i.e. Mango checks) and then relay if it spawns. I find it interesting that some people complain 14 is more single player, but then when there are events that bring a lot of people together (Hunts, S ranks, etc.) that you get complaints.

[KageTokage]

I also am not sure about the people who think people are cheating. Many trains are scouted (I've done a few myself) and you just fly around to the different spawn points, report them, and then when the train is called, the conductor announces each mark in order. For S ranks, people will do checks (i.e. Mango checks) and then relay if it spawns. I find it interesting that some people complain 14 is more single player, but then when there are events that bring a lot of people together (Hunts, S ranks, etc.) that you get complaints.

Cheaters are not a problem with A ranks.

S rank detecting add-ons have existed since ARR, but their functionality has gotten extremely advanced and now auto-relay to several different websites including Discord. If a S rank spawns and there is even one person using said add-on present in the zone when it happens, it means several hundred people also instantly know about it and they come flooding into the zone so quickly that they often end up at the hunt before me even if I was in zone and the one who spawned it. You're basically forced to rely on these add-on relays indirectly if you want to have a fair chance at getting to the hunts now.

[EponaTBHSMH]

Cheaters are not a problem with A ranks.

S rank detecting add-ons have existed since ARR, but their functionality has gotten extremely advanced and now auto-relay to several different websites including Discord. If a S rank spawns and there is even one person using said add-on present in the zone when it happens, it means several hundred people also instantly know about it and they come flooding into the zone so quickly that they often end up at the hunt before me even if I was in zone and the one who spawned it. You're basically forced to rely on these add-on relays indirectly if you want to have a fair chance at getting to the hunts now.

While its true that their functionality improved over time, I do believe the scope of who can access the hunt is what really made a difference over the years, it went from world to cross world to cross datacenter and soon cross region when region travel wont be limited to Materia

I can guarantee you if cross world or cross DC didnt exist, addons would produce the same result as back when we had manually updated tracker websites and linkshells (I remember the days of having 3 linkshells for hunts) but the number of people coming for the hunts is what is really causing the problem and the missing out, in my opinion

[Toutatis]

2) Don't reward for one hit and running off. Players who don't do 2% of the damage just don't get credit.

As pointed out above that doesn’t work at all with many people around and many would not get credit (healers and tanks). Also, what is wrong with tagging the boss instead of egoistically going for the highest dps? When there is a big group of people slow dps gives a better chance for everyone to get credit rather than see the boss killed so fast some people can’t even make it.

[KisaiTenshi]

As pointed out above that doesn’t work at all with many people around and many would not get credit (healers and tanks). Also, what is wrong with tagging the boss instead of egoistically going for the highest dps? When there is a big group of people slow dps gives a better chance for everyone to get credit rather than see the boss killed so fast some people can’t even make it.

It's called a hunt.

If you want credit, party so the party collectively does more than 2% when it has enough HP for 60 players in the zone. I think some people are fundamentally misunderstanding the point of a hunt if they think they should be rewarded for licking it and then doing nothing.

Fundamentally the design is broken because the monster doesn't have enough HP when it spawns to take into account expansions and gear creep later. The easy fix is to simply give S rank hunts buffs/debuffs based on how long it lives once attacked. If it lasts 300 seconds, next time it spawns, it spawns with the same HP. If it lasts less than 300s but more than 180s, it gets a defense buff next time until it lasts more than 300s. If it lasts longer than 300s it drops one buff off, and then starts adding debuffs. So that disincentivizes "lick and run" tactics.

[Toutatis]

It's called a hunt.

If you want credit, party so the party collectively does more than 2% when it has enough HP for 60 players in the zone. I think some people are fundamentally misunderstanding the point of a hunt if they think they should be rewarded for licking it and then doing nothing.

Fundamentally the design is broken because the monster doesn't have enough HP when it spawns to take into account expansions and gear creep later. The easy fix is to simply give S rank hunts buffs/debuffs based on how long it lives once attacked. If it lasts 300 seconds, next time it spawns, it spawns with the same HP. If it lasts less than 300s but more than 180s, it gets a defense buff next time until it lasts more than 300s. If it lasts longer than 300s it drops one buff off, and then starts adding debuffs. So that disincentivizes "lick and run" tactics.

It’s a collective activity that provides useful items and is for both casuals and hardcore. Idk why because it’s called a hunt you have to make it a dps race. It’s inconsiderate of the group. Some people have slower machines, some others internet connections and loading into a zone can take longer. Some are less experienced. I just like to work for the group in general and adjust my dps based on participation and type of mark.

Also, if you have (only) 60 players, the vast majority wouldn’t get credit with the 2% mark no matter the effort. It’s simple math.


I agree that they should review the design though but your proposal is not a solution.