/r/ffxivdiscussion: The format of the MSQ lacks gameplay and should change

[Swordsman]

Full Title - /r/ffxivdiscussion: The format of the MSQ lacks gameplay and should change from now on

I saw this thread on the FFXIV Discussion subreddit and I think the author really nails it on the head regarding how I (and plenty of other players) feel about the DT MSQ: there's just not enough gameplay and combat in the MSQ. I'm pretty damn sure I didn't engage in combat during the MSQ until I was at least 1.5 to 2 hours in. It really is dumb how the player has to wait that long in the MSQ to make use of one of the core functions of the game. Anyhow, it looks like this particular reddit thread is getting plenty of support, and I'm glad there's other players out there who think similarly.

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Original Post:

This is merely MY OPINION. But after playing this game since...my gosh since 1.4 and nonstop since then (some times hardcore, some times veeeery casual) i think with Dawntrail we reached the point when the MSQ from a new expansion format is just not fun and obsolete.

Exp gets released, new areas, new zones and new enemies...but all that for what? Countless of hours of just "go there and talk, then there and talk, then there and talk...talk, talk, talk, talk, talk" till some times you get to do something like follow an NPC, escort another, find some NPC around an area or kill 1-2 enemies in milliseconds. Rinse and repeat until you unlock a dungeon/trial, have an absolute blast and go back to step 1 for another 10 hours.

My complaint? The world and the fauna inside is useless. I didn't need to fight or kill any enemi out of fates or MSQ mandatory. Some quest are ridiculous "kill 3 tigers in a zone infested by tigers" but hey, you can't kill any random tiger...it has to be the 3 ones that pop up when you enter a purple circle. Ridiculous.

I'm saying this because, pre-DT i played other games...other MMOS. And I tried games like SWTOR. Another history focused MMO where you also have a MSQ...but man the quests are "invade this base and hack the computer" or "infiltrate the enemy camp and put poison in the water", "fight the sick animals and find a vaccine for this sickness"...a lot of just..."not talking" quest that of course involved talking (AND DECISION MAKING) and learning the lore...but most time I was wandering around using the gameplay, fighting, infiltrating, solving puzzles, finding items to open the next door or finding a shortcut thanks to my crafting jobs) It even has instanced areas that feel like mini-dungeons for you and your party with elite monsters...the game felt like an adventure where you, the player...actually play. Now going back to my favourite MMO, FFXIV, i find that so far (MSQ lvl95) all I do is "go here and talk". I don't use gameplay out of the rouletes or some fates. I am a FF fan since FF6 and i know there has always been a lot of scenes and talking...but at least there was some action between talkings...some fights, some cool stuff.

I don't know if this situation is because of how much they wanted to do a "chill experience for the casual players" but I have the feeling that i didn't get this bored during Heavensward or Stormblood. Maybe because back then you had to do sidequest in order to level up and keep the level close to the MSQ. Now the "just talk MSQ" and 2 rouletes per day skyroket your lvl to max in no time (I already have picto at lvl100 and Viper 88...and MSQ just reached 95).

Fellow FF players...do you feel the same or you think the game should change a bit and be more....a game?

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Notable Comments:

"I agree, while I did enjoy the story, it could have effectively been one giant cutscene.
The final zone had some interesting choice based stuff, which you knew you had to do, but it was the one single stand out part for me.
The rest of the story was a blurred exposition dump with some dungeons.
For example, the event that happened between Zone 4 and 5.
That would have been pretty fun to be playable, helping out, getting stuff, planning and choosing options to help you in the combat sequence... instead of a cutscene.
Even figuring out the mystery in one of the first 2 zones, same with making like... i dunno... An Actual Trading minigame where you had to figure stuff out and make good trades to get what you needed.
It was like a movie that happened in a bunch of different rooms, and you had a fun themed hallway to walk along between each one.
I will always say that MMOs like RuneScape have some of the best quests since they are all a mix of puzzles, reading, thinking about your next move, the occasional boss fight, gathering and crafting. Everything the game has to offer, in addition to lending a big sense of wonder and world building. Some of my favorite MMO memories are doing some of the bigger quests in 2004-2008 RuneScape.
The game needs to evolve and improve drastically, and ditch the MSQ formula."

"I think some of the EW solo instances were a step in the right direction, and I'm not even talking about In From the Cold.
Two other Garlemald instances (This Is Thancred and the one during the Final Days) felt like perfectly good sequences that mixed in gameplay, plot movement, and cutscenes, all with voiced dialogue.
These could stand to be longer, or be back-to-back segments of quests. If they wanted to do some of the simple out in the open world, I'm sure it'd be possible. Maps (+map dungeons) and battle leves function in ways that could apply to MSQ. They could also give variable EXP to these so we don't have what feel like useless "talk to npc x5" quests before and after them to pad out how much exp we get.
They certainly have the means, and I really hope they experiment more. DT felt like the classic SE over-correction from negative feedback wrt the Endwalker quests, so hopefully they swing back in a different direction next time."

"They have to ask themselves if they want to make an RPG or a visual novel."

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Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...ay_and_should/

Feel free to discuss your opinions below. Cheers.

[Glacierre]

Honestly the format of the MSQ and visual novel-ness never really bothered me until DT exposed those flaws to me. I think before DT, the story and the atmosphere made up for it so I didn't really mind it. I'm one of those people who actually really loved ARR; I was able to look past the shoddy writing because the feeling of going from zero to hero was awesome. But this time around there was nothing to make up for it. It really hit me that it's 2024 and the gameplay is like this. Sure the dungeons and trials were fun but not enough to compensate for the quality of the MSQ. I would really like for Square to innovate more and take risks on the MSQ gameplay and put a new spin on things. I wish that they were not so afraid to do so, and also they are in dire need of an editor. Editing down the MSQ + adding more gameplay would feel fresh for many people. This game is a cash cow for them so I would really like it if they funneled that money back into it.

[Gortys]

I've said elsewhere, the number of "these NPC's are following you", or us following another NPC, or us sneaking behind someone seemed to increase. I remember or 3 in EW. Two of them were typical for new cities, but the one in Ultima Thule also set a mood. I'm honestly tired of following NPC's around cities. I assume this is done because of how painful Ul'dah and Limsa can be to navigate, but I go to plenty of cities without a tour guide so I'm sure the WoL can handle it too. The problem is it starts to feel like it's being done to pad the quests and make the MSQ feel longer.

[Reimmi]

If they're gonna have slow parts of a story, it needs more gameplay.
DT really showed this problem with the msq

[Nitelancer]

I agree. I would like there to be fewer MSQ quests, and for the MSQ quests not give enough experience to get you to the next stage. Between MSQ quests, we would have to do sidequests, fates, dungeons, and other activities to level up. That would give us an opportunity to actually play the game while progressing through the MSQ. This would also make getting to the next stage of the MSQ feel like a reward. The experience would be more enjoyable because its not a constant string of cutscenes with no gameplay.

[Magikazam]

For me, this was a problem even back in EW. Simply put, they removed the small encounter with packs of mobs after SHB and reduced the ammounts of solo duty. Even if these encounter weren't hard or very engaging gameplay wise, it still gave some pause between dialogue and cutscene, it was a nice way to digest the last bit of lore before being thrown in another bunch of cutscenes.

This was better than adding 2 extra cutscenes in each quests where character just re-affirm whatever they talked about in the last quest, like this was a seasonal cartoon that keep reminding you what happend in the last weekly episode.

[Roda]

I am absolutely ecstatic that this conversation is finally being had within the community, 'cause we've needed to have it for some time now.

Yes, xiv is "The Story MMO" and I don't want to take that label away from it, but story can be delivered through interactive methods and systems, and, dare I say, due to the strengths and weaknesses of the genre, it's usually a more effective way to deliver the story than the torrent of cutscenes rut we've been stuck in for years...

As someone who loves actually playing MMOs, I really feel xiv's misuse of its genre every time they insist on separating Story Time and Gameplay time. It really feels like, at this point, the game is intended to be a vehicle for incredibly low budget 3d animated movies with a dungeon/boss fight minigame tacked on. And like.. I know they can do better

I hope in the upcoming patches and expansions, the direction of the game can shift to trying to encourage more organic multiplayer interactions, facilitate more opportunities for natural world interactions, and shift towards using cutscenes as rewards for gameplay instead of using them as a substitute for it.

[DiaDeem]

Wish we could get rid of split zones, MSQ gated zones, and every trail being after the level X3 and X9 dungeon. Makes things feel formulaic and restrictive. My favorite zones have always been the ones that aren't split.

[Kaedan]

To be frank, if you don't care about the story and just want to get to combat, then there's the option to skip.

One of the HUGE selling points of FF14 and makes it so successful is the rich story. And telling a story takes time... like that "1.5 to 2 hours" that you had to "wait" until you got to the bam bam, smash smash.

[Roda]

To be frank, if you don't care about the story and just want to get to combat, then there's the option to skip.

One of the HUGE selling points of FF14 and makes it so successful is the rich story. And telling a story takes time... like that "1.5 to 2 hours" that you had to "wait" until you got to the bam bam, smash smash.

We are decades past the era where narrative and gameplay had to be separate content.