Dawntrail Is A Great Expansion

[ForteNightshade]

So it's just like the rest of the game. Look back at any time we're allowed to backsass an NPC, and you'll immediately see that either it gets played off as the WoL joking, or another NPC apologizes for it. Or the dialogue loops around or ends until you pick the option that lets it continue. I don't get why people keep calling out Dawntrail for this as if it's some new development.

Because unlike in previous expansions, our opinion is still treated like an illusion of player agency. If we pick the sassier option, sure, Alphinaud might play it off but that feels within character--almost akin to a friend awkwardly trying to downplay your remark. In contract, Dawntrail railroads us into supporting Wuk Lamat at nearly every turn. On the very few occasions we don't openly praise her, another character immediately steps in to say "no, no. They really do love Wuk!!"

While other expansions have been guilty of forcing a direction because they have to given this isn't an interactive story in the vein of BG3 or Mass Effect, they're usually not blatantly forcing our opinion in a specific way. Dawntrail wants everyone to love Wuk Lamat and makes absolutely certain they will.

[PercibelTheren]

The final zones where the expansion starts getting interesting should have taken up a hell of a lot more screen time.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Everyone keeps saying how the final zones are the best part but I actively hated them. I wasn't sold on Sphene, Lamat annoyed the hell out of me by being so friendly and trusting with an obvious villain, 90% of the final zone just felt like padding. And the final trial was incredibly anticlimactic.

[CuteBucket]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Everyone keeps saying how the final zones are the best part but I actively hated them. I wasn't sold on Sphene, Lamat annoyed the hell out of me by being so friendly and trusting with an obvious villain, 90% of the final zone just felt like padding. And the final trial was incredibly anticlimactic.

You're not alone, I disliked the last 3rd of the expansion much more than the first 2/3rds. Yes, there were issues with the earlier plots and it could get a bit too silly and shounen anime flavored for my taste, but I liked just going on a low-stakes adventure with some new friends to see the world. It was fine for what it was. Not great, but good enough. But no, we had to bring in a world ending threat out of nowhere and watch Wuk Lamat (who I tolerated in the first half) destroy any respect and goodwill I had for her by her constant need to make Sphene her new best friend at the expense of everyone else around her. Sphene could have been an interesting antagonist if the game didn't keep trying to be like "look, everyone loves Sphene! She's so nice! All her loyal subjects love her so much! Isn't she cute? Don't you want to be her friend?" NO! I hate her and see right through her obvious and clumsy attempts at manipulation, but somehow Wuk Lamat doesn't! It's so infuriating to have to watch and sit through!

[PercibelTheren]

You're not alone, I disliked the last 3rd of the expansion much more than the first 2/3rds. Yes, there were issues with the earlier plots and it could get a bit too silly and shounen anime flavored for my taste, but I liked just going on a low-stakes adventure with some new friends to see the world. It was fine for what it was. Not great, but good enough. But no, we had to bring in a world ending threat out of nowhere and watch Wuk Lamat (who I tolerated in the first half) destroy any respect and goodwill I had for her by her constant need to make Sphene her new best friend at the expense of everyone else around her. Sphene could have been an interesting antagonist if the game didn't keep trying to be like "look, everyone loves Sphene! She's so nice! All her loyal subjects love her so much! Isn't she cute? Don't you want to be her friend?" NO! I hate her and see right through her obvious and clumsy attempts at manipulation, but somehow Wuk Lamat doesn't! It's so infuriating to have to watch and sit through!

Yep, this is exactly how I felt, too. I was bored in the first zone but I mostly enjoyed the MSQ around the first dungeon and trial or so. Sure, there were plot holes and asspulls but it was fine enough. I found Lamat a bit too much of a shonen protagonist but I didn't have many strong feelings about her besides being irritated by the constant repetition of "she hates boats" and "she loves food".

The whole thing with Lamat and Sphene very much felt to me like "awkward kid is convinced popular kid is their best friend" and I hated it. Sphene being a little uwu doll-like Midlander didn't work on me at all. The only way she could have been more obvious is if she held a "I'm the main villain, ask me how" sign. When Alisae of all people was the only one having a reasonable reaction and my WoL just went along with it, I was incredibly frustrated. Surely, we have been betrayed enough times to know better?

I didn't buy the whole "she cares so much about her people" schtick, either. If she did, she wouldn't be an absolutist ruler - a queen. Look at Nanamo. She cares about her people and is working to slowly change the system in Ul'dah. With Emet, they were his friends and colleagues, so it was a lot more believable. I also think the motivation for talking to so many Endless was stupid. They should have gone with "it's so someone remembers them". The message of "you have to understand people to get along with them" is good enough, but it just doesn't work in the final zone.

[Mnemy]

At the beginning, you are thinking "is this it? it's just going to be a political campaign trail the whole way?" Albeit a well-executed one.

A well-executed political campaign story in the sense that it wasn't boring. It felt expansion-caliber in its execution, despite not seeming like an expansion-caliber story.

(1/2)

I'm happy for you that you like it and you think that its a 40 dollars well spent but I have to disagree with this expansion having great political world building. I'm so sorry but HW PATCHES and StB PATCHES has a more politically in depth writing than the ENTIRE EXPANSION of DT. And it really doesn't feel like its an expansion-caliber in its execution.

1.) The fact that the WoL, knowing our power and the responsibility that comes with said power, decided to willy nilly agreed to SUPPORT an unknown claimant to the throne of a foreign country without knowing shit about them is already bonkers. In HW, The reason the WoL agreed to side with Ishgard is because he/she has seen with his/her own eyes what the dragons can do and the danger is very tangible, that in the end its either they let Ishgard burn and subsequently let the world burn with it or WoL will do something about it. The same can be said with StB. In here, we dont even know ANYTHING about WL and yet WoL just agreed like a dumbass. The writing makes the WoL who was so well aware of their power in the past expansions, suddenly be a dumbass just because "ADVENTURE??? YES PLEASE". No it would've been great that yeah maybe instead of being a going to Tural so you can ENTER A POLITICAL CONFILCT YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT, they should start it with us going with Krile and Erenville instead to help Krile discover her origins and answer her questions cus this expac is supposed to be a chill adventure and what is more chill but important enough than helping your friend find her answers and explore a new country? And then as the expac goes they can show us the problems Tural is facing, and yeah, It's worth it to side with WL's succession claim to help said country and with a seriousness that decisions like that should entail, decide to enter another political conflict to help WL and the WoL will become the mentor she needs that way.

2.) When WL suddenly decided she wanted to co-rule with Koana. Decisions like that should not be taken lightly and should be discussed with the other politically powerful people in the country, and she does this like it's a suprise birthday present for her bro. Remember how Nanamo in her arc how she lamented the fact she cant do anything without consulting the other politically powerful people in the country? Or how Lyse had to consult the leaders of the villages and tribes to find a way forward for the entire country? Or how Aymeric had founded the House of Lords and Commons by talking to the people that they rule? (CONT.)

(1/2)

[Mnemy]

(2/2)

BIG POLITICAL CHANGES LIKE THAT SHOULD NOT BE DONE ON THE FLY. WL decision should NOT be the only one that matters. SHE IS RULING AN ENTIRE CONTINENT IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE SO EASILY. You can alienate the people you are ruling by doing that. And TBH by showing us that she's doing this, consulting her people about the change in the ruling structure, just trying to be a proper leader, IT COULD SHOW US THAT SHE IS FINALLY READY TO BE THE LEADER WE WANT HER TO BE. Ruling should not just be all about having a big heart and loving your countrymen, being a leader should be about being aware of what your people needs and what needs to be done.

3.) WL just LEAVING Koana to deal with the aftermath of the attack BY HIMSELF and just gallivanting off into the sunset with us to "hELP DEFEAT ZORAAL JA" It's already a given that if you are a leader of the country you just... DON'T DO THIS. Yeah Koana is there, but as the VOW OF REASON, he should be handling and focused on the Thavnair alliance talk to help his people in the crisis, and WL as the VOW OF RESOLVE should be focused on shoring up their defenses instead. They have different VOWS and responsibilities for a reason. Yeah Zoraal Ja is a Problem, but it could also work in a way that, at first we leave WL so that she could shore up the defenses in Tural, help her people in their time of need and be very hesitant to leave them and her brother to fend off for themselves in this time of crisis. Then as the story progress, we see a cutscene where they think the city is a ready as it could get and Koana finally encourages WL to go after us and help us deal with Zoraal Ja because she is the one Zoraal Ja is after. Just like how Aymeric had to talk to Hraesvalgr himself so he can plead his case to Hraesvalgr face to face on behalf of his people. It would've shown us that she has grown as a character and she is ready to be a leader. It would show us that she has matured beyond just loving her countrymen to LOVING THEM AND BEING READY TO LEAD THEM THROUGH CRISES AND PEACE BOTH.

This is all I can think for now but goddamn I have alot of gripes with this expac and this is one of my biggest gripes with it. Feel free to add all the political miss steps this expansion made.

(2/2)

[Rekh]

I agree, it's one of the best expansions xiv has put out in years, mainly the MSQ so far.

The unfortunate thing is that when we level all jobs there will be nothing else to do for the most part. Minion and mount collecting will still hold the game together but at that point we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The quality of dawntrail has been one of the best ever; even the job design has impressed me, for the most part. The role design needs some work, but we'll see what they do about that.

My suggestion to square enix is to fast-track the relics and have them ready by 7.1 instead of by 7.3 like they usually do. We need something to do. It's inexcusable not to have relics early in the expansions; it would be like not having savage ready early in the expansion. They should be feeding casuals early, not halfway through the expansion.

[Y2K21]

OP looks like bait and reads like it.

[OdinelStarrei]

OP looks like bait and reads like it.

Jeeqbit doesn't post bait. Just because someone likes Dawntrail does not mean they are trolling.

May not agree with it, may not understand it, may not even begin to fathom it on a conceptional level, how someone can enjoy parts of this expansion, but they're not insulting or hurting anyone.

[Astronema]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVFd46qABi0