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  1. #1
    Player
    Ryaduera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    218
    Character
    Ryaduera Tengille
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rithy255 View Post
    snip
    I think a lot of people get hung up here in the discussion because of the games design. Every tank can clear the content, being able to do it is not what defines good or bad. Every job can clear any content, it's more about the way the tanks compare to eachother in that design space. The main issue tanks have in this game is that the tank with the greatest DPS will be the most desirable in high end content because damage is all that really matters if everyone can clear the content on any job. Every tank must be made to be tanky enough for this to be true, which means that if DRK is the least tanky then the encounter must be designed so that DRK can clear it, however this means that if the other tanks are better, they trivialize it. It's definitely a lot less of DRK is bad and a lot more of DRK suffers from bad design. And Dark Mind means that every encounter that does magic damage DRK does well in, but the issue shows back up that this still means every other tank also does it better and DRK does even worse in nonmagical damage fights. DRK is always either equal or worse than the others.

    Now bring in damage, as long as DRK does good damage it will be desirable because it can clear all content, nobody really refutes DRK damage because it's easy to execute with a simple flow thanks to the DT changes.

    Basically what I'm saying is if Warrior is S rank, PLD and GNB are A rank, and DRK is B rank in tanks, but all content is clearable by the B rank tank then the A and S rank tanks are always better. I make a point of never using warrior in my DRK comparisons for a few reasons, per target maths is harder to calculate consistency for in the case of BW, but also how much of an outlier it is for its abilities. DRK should be compared to the 2 middle tanks, the average, so to speak. And in this regard, it falls very flat in its abilities outside of the dungeon use case for TBN to save pugs from boss mechanics they aren't quite grasping. I had a pug in expert survive a stack mechanic solo because with the tank buster on me I dumped Ob, Reprisal, and TBN on them to keep them alive. That was pretty cool. But PLD and GNB are so much more powerful than DRK that if I were on one of them I could have just finished it off myself (I always ask the party, I am not that tank player).

    If even the B tier tank can clear the content, people will only measure its worth based on the damage it can deal, and if that damage is decent people will defend it. TBN, however, is just not as good as people pretend, either they don't main DRK or DRK is the only thing they play. I'm just really sick of people saying DRK defensives are better when they are objectively and mathematically not, even after TBN is calculated into it all. It's tired, it's old, it should be merged with Oblation, remove the MP cost, and put on a 25s cd just like other tanks and the shield break should give Dark Arts which empowers a different defensive with different effects. But I never pitch this idea because people adore its 15 second cooldown despite its inferiority. TBN Breaks and now Dark Arts makes Dark Mind has 10% phys reduct, Dark Arts makes Shadowed Vigil have additional parry rate, something like that.

    When working in game balance, if something is functioning fine but receiving a lot of criticism, the problem usually isn't actual balance, but design, and in this regard, DRK needs a redesign... again.

    But then also there's to consider that in a game where tanks are extremely overpowered in general, that means the tank that still needs a healer is underpowered and holding back the amount of damage the content can do to challenge the other tanks. Sure, working with the healer in an effort of teamwork is good, I'd even argue healthy given the current FFXIV Healer complaints. The problem doesn't come from this, it comes from Dark Knight being the only one. It's a problem of design, not just balance. This is also why I think if we want all tanks to require healers or otherwise turned down to DRK levels of defensives, then it's an entire systemic rework and will be harder than just changing some numbers like people think, but putting DRK on the level of the other tanks actually is as simple as an adjustment of numbers.

    EDIT: Actually ideally TBN would consume 5 or 10 seconds of Darkside time to give us a reason to actually have a gauge for it, on a 25s cooldown, breaking it gives Dark Arts, using Dark Mind, Shadowed Vigil, or also TBN again, give sit another effect. Just a thought.

    EDIT2: Okay my brain juices got flowing at the thought and I can't help myself, here's my pitch to rework DRK defensives.

    Merge TBN and Oblation into one skill, 25% max health shield for 7 seconds and 10% damage reduction for 10 seconds on a 25 second cooldown. It costs 10 seconds off your Darkside timer (that's 2.4 TNBs in a 1 minute window, you'll consume 20-30s Darkside time a minute depending on timing). When the shield breaks, you gain Dark Arts. If the shield does not break, heal for 30% of the remaining shield value.

    Dark Arts empowers your next defensive ability automatically. If used with Dark Mind you gain a 100% Parry Rate for 10 seconds as well as the 20% magic damage reduction.

    If you use Shadowed Vigil with Dark Arts you give yourself an effect for 15 seconds that bursts in an area around you upon expiration and lowers all hit targets damage by 10% for 10 seconds.

    If you have Dark Arts and use Dark Passenger you give yourself and your party a shield with a potency equivalent to 500 heal potency that can only absorb magical damage.

    If you have Dark Arts and use TBN once again you gain an additional 5% max HP shielding

    Give Dark Knight an all new skill, maybe keep the name of Oblation idk, but you can only activate it while Dark Arts is available. This skill heals you for a 300 potency with a 1s cooldown, but of course, you only have 1 charge of Dark Arts at a time so it's effectively a 25s cooldown.
    (3)
    Last edited by Ryaduera; 07-17-2024 at 08:00 AM.
    Filled to the brim with salt, vinegar, and unpopular opinions.

    Nobody told me Fantasias were addictive, now I have to go to rehab.