A recent fundamental problem with FFXIV

[Daralii]

FFXIV and XII do not share the same universe. XII and the first Tactics game do, but not FFXIV.

FFXIV has its own version of Ivalice. Just like it has its own version of the Crystal Tower, Doma, Alexandria etc. The differences between XII/Tactics and FFXIV really cannot be reconciled for a number of reasons. But one of the biggest ones is that everything is backwards. In the original Ivalice setting, XII takes place long before Tactics, where as in FFXIV the Tactics references are in the ancient past and the XII references are current day. Including XII's non human races still being around despite them having gone extinct some time between XII and Tactics.

FFXIV doesn't directly link itself to other FF games, outside of crossover events if you count them as canon. It's possible that the XI raids will break this trend, but it's more likely based on precedent (crystal tower raids, ivalice raids etc) that they will work their own version and adaptation of XI lore into FFXIV lore. Though IS possible we'll just like, go through a portal to XI's vana'diel, that's not how they've handled raids drawing from FF history in the past. Though they DID just have the Nier characters show up through a portal so it's possible I guess.

Iroha already showed up as a traveler from another world in an event back when Rhapsodies started, so I wouldn't be surprised if they build on that.

Regardless, the OP's point is that they've recently recycling entire storylines from other games in the series and just reframing them instead of just referencing them. Project Meteor, the Crystal Tower, Alexander, Matoya, Doma, Eden, etc are all references to other games in the series, but the XIV iterations were all their own distinct things. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding that.

[aTanpopo]

Regardless, the OP's point is that they've recently recycling entire storylines from other games in the series and just reframing them instead of just referencing them. Project Meteor, the Crystal Tower, Alexander, Matoya, Doma, Eden, etc are all references to other games in the series, but the XIV iterations were all their own distinct things. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding that.

I'm not a FF player outside of 14, I've only ever played a few hours of 9, maybe 2 of 13 and then bits of side games (Crystal Chronicles, Theatrhythm). I knew that 14 would always have references to other FF games in it when I started but never felt like me not understanding what said references were negatively effected my ability to enjoy the story. Sure most of the primals/trials were things from previous games, but they were still changed to fit the lore of the world. I didn't need to know who Matoya was in relation to whatever game she originated from, because she was tied with Y'shtola. It didn't matter if Eden was originally from another game, because the story around it was completely relevant to the plot of 14. When I first did Omega, I didn't understand any of the references to other games in the boss fights and it kinda made me not care as much about it, but it still included characters from 14 in the storyline and made it relevant so even without the nostalgia from fighting all these bosses from other FF games it was fun.

Part of me wishes I didn't play a bit of 9, because I was so aware of the references in the second half of the game that after a while I started wondering if the reason I wasn't really getting into the story was that I couldn't understand all of the references it was taking from it, as I never finished playing 9. Even Golbez and the storyline in 6.x felt slightly better as it was tied in with stuff that felt directly relevant to the world of 14. With Alexandria, they haven't fully explained what it even is yet. Is it some part of the 12th shard even though it was said to be successfully rejoined? What does "successfully rejoined" even mean now if one tiny part can still survive? Or was it something more like the 1st where an isolated pocket of the land was spared from the calamity and that's what merged? They could explain this post-MSQ sure, but I was really lacking on reasons to get emotionally invested in the whole area because the ties I did have an interest in finding out about (Erenville's hometown/family, investigating another reflection + it's relation to Krile) were sidelined for a completely new plotline and characters that were possibly all based on a game I know next to nothing about. Even the music was stuff from 9, right? (which felt like it didn't really fit the mood of the area along with the ominous soundtrack of Heritage Found, but i think that's more a personal taste thing)- I didn't remember any of it, but said to myself "what's this fairy tale ass music that sounds like it could be from some other older FF game lmao" when Sphene was first introduced and it didn't click in until a bit later that "oh, it is."

Yes its Final Fantasy 14, I understand that, but I know I'm not the only person who plays this game because I enjoy the story and world its created- not because it's a Final Fantasy game.

[Manamaru]

Bluntly put, they've started to reuse old FF games for stories.

What do you mean started? Since ARR with the crystal tower raids, they were pulling and referencing from FF3.

Hell, unrelated to FF, I'd hazard a guess that Mor Dhona's night theme has some strikingly similar notes or melody to SMB3's sky (cloud) theme.

But Final Fantasy 14 is not only an MMO by itself with an "original" story, but it's also a love letter to the previous games and other Square related titles that have existed before.

Omega was introduced in 5, but it brought over a tournament arc that dragged in bosses from previous Final Fantasies, more-so from 6.

POTD's lich and the "Notice of Death" used in the cutscenes (at a higher pitched than what I'm used to hearing it) when you get past floor 50 is a direct reference to Tactics Ogre.

Granted, the FF4 inclusion at the end of EW was very 80's - 90's "my lord, I shall enact my evil plan and eliminate the good-doers. Leave everything to me. I won't fail you" sort of anime shenanigans. So that was a fun bit of nostalgia feeling imho.

[Jeeqbit]

Bluntly put, they've started to reuse old FF games for stories.

They view this game as a "Final Fantasy themepark". So they see re-using things from the older games as an important part of it.

The reason they do this is because everyone has a different definition of what Final Fantasy is. Some people only played FF7. Some people only played FF9. Some people only played FF8. Some people only played FF15 or FF16. Some people played none of them. So they have to have elements from all of them such that it "feels" like final fantasy to people who come from different Final Fantasy games.

[Krisom]

The story was nothing like IX's story so the idea that it does anything to 'tarnish' it is a ridiculous notion.
Other than Alexandria's architecture and loose history(that does not even line up with IX's in the first place before things 'changed') the closest thing is Otis(Ortis?) being a somewhat Steiner character and even that is far removed, that's already more than Sphene's similarities to Garnet.
It's clearly done that way so it can be its own thing than a rehash of IX's story which wouldn't fit and would confuse players who haven't played IX, the story itself didn't even try to be anything like IX.

[AddictedToWitches]

The story was nothing like IX's story so the idea that it does anything to 'tarnish' it is a ridiculous notion.
Other than Alexandria's architecture and loose history(that does not even line up with IX's in the first place before things 'changed') the closest thing is Otis(Ortis?) being a somewhat Steiner character and even that is far removed, that's already more than Sphene's similarities to Garnet.
It's clearly done that way so it can be its own thing than a rehash of IX's story which wouldn't fit and would confuse players who haven't played IX, the story itself didn't even try to be anything like IX.

SPOILER AHEAD:
Everkeep is a mechanical lifa tree
Zoraal ja fills a similar role to Kuja and Garland
Wuk Lamat has similar character traits to Zidane (one can also argue her being a hrothgar is a subtle reference to trance zidane)
Viper is literally the Zidane class
Sphene and Krile both fill similar roles to Garnet. Sphene is meant to be a direct Garnet expy though Sphene goes through a different character arc than Garnet while Krile fits Garnet's actual role more clearly
Otis is obviously Steiner yeah
Queen Eternal/Queen Engine looks similar to Necron, and the battle theme has callbacks to necron's theme
Oblivion is kinda similar to Tantalus
It's definitely not a rehash but the callbacks are plentiful and some story beats are the exact same, primarily with the whole souls thing

[Krisom]

The only ones here I agree with are with Everkeep and Otis parts which I picked up during the story. (Even though the Iifa Tree is referenced in text separately)
Zidane 'job' is a bit hit and mostly miss. You can argue that Reawaken is a Trance and that the dual-blade is a reference to Zidane but everything else is so far removed, there's no other aesthetic it takes from Zidane that comes directly from IX, Zidane is a Thief and doesn't have any aesthetics of a Viper that takes from its name if someone told me "I feel like Zidane when I play Viper!" I'd be stunned wondering why because outside of those two, and one of them might just be its own thing I don't see the resemblance.

I personally think Sphene is NOTHING like Garnet and I can't for the life of me see that from Krile at all even personality wise nor the journey they take.
Wuk Lamat isn't similar to Zidane at all (and I am not going to humour the her being a Hrothgar is reference to Zidane at all, not to be rude sorry.)- Zidane is competent well rounded individual that people come to for advice and offers it and naturally from the start fits into the leader role even with resistance he gets from Steiner and later Garnet due to his own actions. You could argue that they go out their way to help people but that's a such a generic trait of a good-willed protagonist but swap the roles of Wuk Lamat and Zidane in their respective games and it'd be a completely different story, I don't see them being similar at all.

I would love to hear the Necron part of the of Queen Eternal's theme if you don't mind just telling me what section of their song plays if you will, IX is my favourite FF game I'd love to hear it (and can't believe I would have missed it, unless it's incredibly subtle).

But again I feel that the while there are similarities the major themes of the story are just so mismatched that DT heavily pushes forward the community/culture as opposed to the theme of IX even the character journey don't match for any character that's supposedly a parallel to their IX counterpart.
It's like people think that "This is DT re-telling the story of XI" when really they using material in a way that fans of IX can enjoy it and those who never played IX would be oblivious to it even being a reference and not be lost.

The only time I thought this went a bit too far was in EW's .1-.4 patches.
Though that might be a detriment to be playing the game before, I am not sure how it'd affect people who haven't played IV but I do know people who have not touched IX(or interested FF in general) and they didn't know any better for the IX references in this game.

[AddictedToWitches]

STARTED TO?
My brother in christ they've been referencing other FF games since 1.0
Almost every final fantasy game is like this.

[Isala]

Yes. They've been "referencing" other Final Fantasies since the beginning, but the really big references were side content. Before they made CT mandatory for MSQ for Shadowbringers, which is where the "HERE'S ANOTHER FINAL FANTASY!!!!" cracks started showing in the story, every reference was not part of the main XIV story. CT, Ivalice and Nier were 24 mans. Omega and Alexander were raids. And yes, they borrowed enemies. Every FF has done that since the very beginning. We're not complaining about that. You're going to see a Bahamut. You're going to see some variation of the summons/primals/eidolons. You're going to see things like a Cactuar, or a Tonberry, or any of the hundreds of iconic FF enemies.

However, even when they did put a nod, or a similar story in the MSQ, it was always presented as "here's XIV's take on it". Such as the aforementioned Shadowbringers reference to III's lore, in which the world had been consumed by light. Then we come to the post Depression Bird content for EW. It's literally just IV. They added two new NPCs, jazzed up the plot a tiny bit, and went "Here's IV. Here are iconic IV places, here are iconic IV bosses, here are iconic IV plot devices. Including the moon. Again." Also, we're going to sideline THE ACTUAL GODS DAMNED GODS into 24 man content, instead of giving them the focus they deserve. When you start sidelining the actual XIV story for references? That's when you know you've gone too far. And it's continuing into Dawntrail. We're just straight up ripping from IX for MSQ content again.