A recent fundamental problem with FFXIV

[AlucaDragonheart]

Honestly the FF9 refernces feel like they were taken from notes from the game, it's doesn't feel like anyone on the team actually played it

Better yet, it feels like they were taken right off the FF wiki instead.

[Nebelheim]

Huh? The Crystal Tower has been there since ARR. Then there was Alexander in HW, then Omega with a bunch of FFV and FFVI fights, and also the direct confirmation that XII and XIV share the same universe with the Ivalice Raids.

Are you people new to the game? I'm asking honestly. It's always had very obvert and shameless elements from older Final Fantasy games plastered all over. Whether you think this is a good or bad thing is for you to decide, but let's not act like this is a "recent" thing, because that's an objective lie.

There is also a bunch of mobs ripped and upscaled directly from ff11/12 and 13 as well and some mobs from other final fantasy games and dungeon bosses. And alzadaal's legacy being brought in from ff11.

[Bright-Flower]

Huh? The Crystal Tower has been there since ARR. Then there was Alexander in HW, then Omega with a bunch of FFV and FFVI fights, and also the direct confirmation that XII and XIV share the same universe with the Ivalice Raids.

Are you people new to the game? I'm asking honestly. It's always had very obvert and shameless elements from older Final Fantasy games plastered all over. Whether you think this is a good or bad thing is for you to decide, but let's not act like this is a "recent" thing, because that's an objective lie.

FFXIV and XII do not share the same universe. XII and the first Tactics game do, but not FFXIV.

FFXIV has its own version of Ivalice. Just like it has its own version of the Crystal Tower, Doma, Alexandria etc. The differences between XII/Tactics and FFXIV really cannot be reconciled for a number of reasons. But one of the biggest ones is that everything is backwards. In the original Ivalice setting, XII takes place long before Tactics, where as in FFXIV the Tactics references are in the ancient past and the XII references are current day. Including XII's non human races still being around despite them having gone extinct some time between XII and Tactics.

FFXIV doesn't directly link itself to other FF games, outside of crossover events if you count them as canon. It's possible that the XI raids will break this trend, but it's more likely based on precedent (crystal tower raids, ivalice raids etc) that they will work their own version and adaptation of XI lore into FFXIV lore. Though IS possible we'll just like, go through a portal to XI's vana'diel, that's not how they've handled raids drawing from FF history in the past. Though they DID just have the Nier characters show up through a portal so it's possible I guess.

[Manamaru]

Bluntly put, they've started to reuse old FF games for stories.

What do you mean started? Since ARR with the crystal tower raids, they were pulling and referencing from FF3.

Hell, unrelated to FF, I'd hazard a guess that Mor Dhona's night theme has some strikingly similar notes or melody to SMB3's sky (cloud) theme.

But Final Fantasy 14 is not only an MMO by itself with an "original" story, but it's also a love letter to the previous games and other Square related titles that have existed before.

Omega was introduced in 5, but it brought over a tournament arc that dragged in bosses from previous Final Fantasies, more-so from 6.

POTD's lich and the "Notice of Death" used in the cutscenes (at a higher pitched than what I'm used to hearing it) when you get past floor 50 is a direct reference to Tactics Ogre.

Granted, the FF4 inclusion at the end of EW was very 80's - 90's "my lord, I shall enact my evil plan and eliminate the good-doers. Leave everything to me. I won't fail you" sort of anime shenanigans. So that was a fun bit of nostalgia feeling imho.

[GrizzlyTank]

FFXIV doesn't directly link itself to other FF games, outside of crossover events if you count them as canon. It's possible that the XI raids will break this trend, but it's more likely based on precedent (crystal tower raids, ivalice raids etc) that they will work their own version and adaptation of XI lore into FFXIV lore. Though IS possible we'll just like, go through a portal to XI's vana'diel, that's not how they've handled raids drawing from FF history in the past. Though they DID just have the Nier characters show up through a portal so it's possible I guess.

Yeah, only two things in FFXIV are "linked" with other games. One being our bro Greg who jumps through the various games, the other is Nier.

And while the Nier story itself was a bit too repetitive from Nier Automata itself, it could still be used as a hook for something else later from the persistent Nier villain, those Seeds of Destructions porting through worlds.

[Jeeqbit]

Bluntly put, they've started to reuse old FF games for stories.

They view this game as a "Final Fantasy themepark". So they see re-using things from the older games as an important part of it.

The reason they do this is because everyone has a different definition of what Final Fantasy is. Some people only played FF7. Some people only played FF9. Some people only played FF8. Some people only played FF15 or FF16. Some people played none of them. So they have to have elements from all of them such that it "feels" like final fantasy to people who come from different Final Fantasy games.

[kaynide]

And alzadaal's legacy being brought in from ff11.

This one makes me laugh because Alzadaal was originally a bastardization of "Alexander", much like Dalamud and Bahamut.

Now, it's just become it's own entirely separate thing...kinda like Ogre Nix/Organics.

[Daralii]

FFXIV and XII do not share the same universe. XII and the first Tactics game do, but not FFXIV.

FFXIV has its own version of Ivalice. Just like it has its own version of the Crystal Tower, Doma, Alexandria etc. The differences between XII/Tactics and FFXIV really cannot be reconciled for a number of reasons. But one of the biggest ones is that everything is backwards. In the original Ivalice setting, XII takes place long before Tactics, where as in FFXIV the Tactics references are in the ancient past and the XII references are current day. Including XII's non human races still being around despite them having gone extinct some time between XII and Tactics.

FFXIV doesn't directly link itself to other FF games, outside of crossover events if you count them as canon. It's possible that the XI raids will break this trend, but it's more likely based on precedent (crystal tower raids, ivalice raids etc) that they will work their own version and adaptation of XI lore into FFXIV lore. Though IS possible we'll just like, go through a portal to XI's vana'diel, that's not how they've handled raids drawing from FF history in the past. Though they DID just have the Nier characters show up through a portal so it's possible I guess.

Iroha already showed up as a traveler from another world in an event back when Rhapsodies started, so I wouldn't be surprised if they build on that.

Regardless, the OP's point is that they've recently recycling entire storylines from other games in the series and just reframing them instead of just referencing them. Project Meteor, the Crystal Tower, Alexander, Matoya, Doma, Eden, etc are all references to other games in the series, but the XIV iterations were all their own distinct things. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding that.

[aTanpopo]

Regardless, the OP's point is that they've recently recycling entire storylines from other games in the series and just reframing them instead of just referencing them. Project Meteor, the Crystal Tower, Alexander, Matoya, Doma, Eden, etc are all references to other games in the series, but the XIV iterations were all their own distinct things. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding that.

I'm not a FF player outside of 14, I've only ever played a few hours of 9, maybe 2 of 13 and then bits of side games (Crystal Chronicles, Theatrhythm). I knew that 14 would always have references to other FF games in it when I started but never felt like me not understanding what said references were negatively effected my ability to enjoy the story. Sure most of the primals/trials were things from previous games, but they were still changed to fit the lore of the world. I didn't need to know who Matoya was in relation to whatever game she originated from, because she was tied with Y'shtola. It didn't matter if Eden was originally from another game, because the story around it was completely relevant to the plot of 14. When I first did Omega, I didn't understand any of the references to other games in the boss fights and it kinda made me not care as much about it, but it still included characters from 14 in the storyline and made it relevant so even without the nostalgia from fighting all these bosses from other FF games it was fun.

Part of me wishes I didn't play a bit of 9, because I was so aware of the references in the second half of the game that after a while I started wondering if the reason I wasn't really getting into the story was that I couldn't understand all of the references it was taking from it, as I never finished playing 9. Even Golbez and the storyline in 6.x felt slightly better as it was tied in with stuff that felt directly relevant to the world of 14. With Alexandria, they haven't fully explained what it even is yet. Is it some part of the 12th shard even though it was said to be successfully rejoined? What does "successfully rejoined" even mean now if one tiny part can still survive? Or was it something more like the 1st where an isolated pocket of the land was spared from the calamity and that's what merged? They could explain this post-MSQ sure, but I was really lacking on reasons to get emotionally invested in the whole area because the ties I did have an interest in finding out about (Erenville's hometown/family, investigating another reflection + it's relation to Krile) were sidelined for a completely new plotline and characters that were possibly all based on a game I know next to nothing about. Even the music was stuff from 9, right? (which felt like it didn't really fit the mood of the area along with the ominous soundtrack of Heritage Found, but i think that's more a personal taste thing)- I didn't remember any of it, but said to myself "what's this fairy tale ass music that sounds like it could be from some other older FF game lmao" when Sphene was first introduced and it didn't click in until a bit later that "oh, it is."

Yes its Final Fantasy 14, I understand that, but I know I'm not the only person who plays this game because I enjoy the story and world its created- not because it's a Final Fantasy game.

[Reimmi]

Uh, Yoshi stated FFXIV would be referencing the series history in every way since before ARR's launch. Did you really expect anything different?

references =/= plagiarizing the entire plot