[DT Spoilers] DT Thoughts, criticisms.

[kaynide]

This is another "old man yelling at clouds", but I wanted to share my thoughts as a long-term player regarding DT.

Who am I and why is my opinion important? It's not, really. This is probably more of the same. I figure, I'm a 10 year veteran of the game, and have thoughts I'd share. Agree or disagree, all good. Just my opinions.

Foremost, a review:

I enjoyed it. The main plot of Act 1 was solid. Some bits were better than others, but it did what it needed to do, and I enjoyed seeing Lamat and Koana become who they are.

The yeehaw wild west zone was entirely forgettable. There was nothing about that zone that did anything for me. Even Pipboy with the rubber bullets.

The finale was solid, but this is where I started to really wonder why the story took certain direction, and is where most of my concerns are (see below).

And now, criticisms:

1) Please stop introducing "the real villain" so late in the story.

You had a great manipulator Kefka-figure in Sareel Ja who could have easily been poisoning Zoraal's mind. He was built up throughout the whole Act 1 and then carelessly cast aside.

IF Zoraal was meant to be your big bad, then stick to him being the big big bad. Otherwise, it REALLY should have been Sareel ja as a Kefka-like manipulator/madman.

2) Speaking of Zoraal, why was he so so flat?

If his father is such a wise, loving man, he surely would have noticed something off about his son.

Perhaps show that Zoraal was an only child, and Galuul too hard on him. By the time Zoraal was a young adult, Galuul adopts Koana/Lamat further isolating him. ("Why does he need to adopt kids when he has me? I'm not good enough??"). No parent is perfect- Galuul could have wanted to have more children because he wanted to help Zoraal feel more love for others, even though it ultimately failed. Couple that with Sareel poisoning his mind and you've got a solid Vader-trope.

Sareel should have been the big bad!

3) Why not build more on existing lore???

So, towards the end of dungeon 3 we saw some distinct stone-robot-enemies. Holy crap this civilization is RONKAN. Wait, hexigons and black metal... Omicrons!?

Ah, they require souls to live... so they're behind the purple crystal thing at the House of the Crooked Coin in the Azim Steppe that's sucking souls?? WOAH.

Ah, their city is Alexandria... so they're from the dark future that used Alexander as a base for time/space travel... which means part of their civilization got sent to the wrong space/time in an experiment (RONKA AGAIN!).

Ah, no. Ok.

Well that's fine I guess. At least we'll finally get to see the Whalaqee. Wait.. where are they? We can't even just..visit them outside of future BLU content?

4) I like the zones, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of thought on how we'll use them POST MSQ.

The final zone I get why it is the way it is, and I'm fine with it as a story beat. No complaints on that.

Rather, why are 2 of the 6 zones "Thanalan, the sequel, but this time with rubber bullet cowboys". If you were going to model that region on North America, there was a lot you could work with.

Might I suggest Yellowstone with the colorful pools and geysers? The very wide and prominent Mississippi river with a steamboat? How about, I dunno, an actual honest-to-god swamp or everglades style area? Like a miserable fly ridden bog. If it's gotta be desert, why not painted desert? Or Monument Valley? Give us some unique landscape bits to look at.

Alternatively, add more structures we can utilize on our own for Gpose or just as an interesting place to hang out. I would love to be able to go sightseeing. (See Yanxia, with the cherry blossom grove, rainbow pools and shipwrecks)

[Vespar]

Here seems as good as any to post my thoughts. Warning potential spoilers ahead (in case it wasnt obvious). Keep in mind, my thoughts are in no particular order and I suck at explaining so its a mess in my head right now...

-I might get flamed for this but I liked Wuk Lamat's character and optimism, and she reminded me of an "azem". I enjoyed her through the first half of the MSQ up until the Rite of Succession ended but I sadly wished she would have exhibited more "growth".

-None of the Turali denizens seem to know or care who we are, or what nearly happened to the world prior to our arrival. Those things happened to the WORLD, not just one place on it, and we didnt stop being the Champion of Eorzea or Warrior of Light just because we took a ride on a boat...

-I wish that we had more opposition from the other competitors (and their counterparts) not just Bakool Ja Ja, but hone in more on Zoraal Ja as well.

-I felt like the story and origins surrounding Bakool Ja Ja and the Mamool Ja were at least meaningful and well done. It gave us a reason to care about them after disliking Bakool Ja Ja the whole time. Realizing he wasnt so one-sided was refreshing.

-Zoraal Ja... I felt like the threat he poses shoudl he have won the rite was understated and I wish we'd have had more moments to really let that threat become a valid problem beforehand. Some back story of him and Gulool Ja Ja would also have been useful.

-Koana seemed to be the only one to actually get any kind of "growth" in the Rite of Succession, which I admired, but wished other characters had shined more.

-I was disappointed to see Erenville and Krile take such back seats during this expansion given how front and center they seemed they would be during the lead up to Dawntrail.

-Going more into detail on Krile... Why did it feel like her origins and part of the story were more a footnote or stepping stone than an actual feature of the story. Immensely disappointed by this! The moment we finally got some story for her it was too little and now far too late because they "killed' it in the literal sense.

-The second half of the story featuring Sphene/Zoraal Ja felt rushed and while I was super eager for more of it, it felt so deflated. Less of Wuk Lamat cheeriness and more anxiety and tension of the second half!

-Please for the love of god stop relying on Y'shtola as a plot point!!!! When she showed up to tell us "Its a portal to another reflection" She said it so matter of factly! Atleast you could have written her to show confusion for a bit before responding "Its... another reflection". I get that she can see aether, but this sucked out any interest and depth that could have been realized in the moment.

-I really missed G'raha... No I dont have a crush on him, but I like his character and it was sorely missed during the first half of DT.

-I wish they would have more carefully explored the "electrope" ideas and the lore behind it. The idea of soul storage, usage, etc and how it affected the denizens of that world. Why they warred over it to the point of extinction, etc. For such smart technological society, how did they not see its use was going to kill them?? And if they did see it, why didnt they attempt to right the ship. They didnt seem to care that using souls as energy in this matter would bring their down fall. Also, they could have further explored the lore and trauma of deleting folks memory from existence to avoid the feelings of loss. What would happen if the system failed and all of those memories got unleashed on folks?
Some great ideas there that just weren't realized.

-Going back to Krile and her origins, I wanna know more about the South Sea Isles Milalla/Lalfells now.

-It wasnt well described but is the dome a bubble of the other reflection now caught in the source? Or is it an actual portal to that world. Because this has serious lore implications either way?

-There's also a lot of new threads that have yet to be explored that I hope will get touched on but haven't been yet. Such as, whats going on on other worlds? How is the first's empty faring? How is the restoration of the 13th going to happen or how it proceeding? Unulkahai and whats her name on the first? Can they get home?

-How does Dawntrail tie into the current Ascian story. Dont get me wrong, I understand Hydaelyn/Zodiark saga is finished but that doesnt mean we delete it like the Alexandrians do painful memories. Rather, I'd like to see it woven cohesively into the new story, not tossed to the side. There's lots of lore to be explored there yet also. Going into the expansion, I initially wondered if Sphene was an ancient, that turned out to not be the case, but there are still other ascian plot points we've yet to see cleaned up.

-Battle content and trials were fun and the combat is engaging! Healer actually feels fun and important again (in DT content only though sadly).

-Music 10/10 with one HUGE MAJOR EXCEPTION! The track "Smile" that plays during the end credits was gods awful to listen to and it was so distracting that I could'nt focus on Erenville's dialogue during the final cutscene. All other music... /chefskiss

-My biggest gripe with the MSQ - It lacks the depth and emotional rollercoaster ride Ive come to expect over the years. Starting in ARR, toying with my heart over the Sultana, Heavensward crushing it with the loss of Harchefaunt and later Shiva. Stormblood forcing me to watch Y'shtola be cut down and leaving us fearing for her life. Post-SB, the scions being stolen from us not knowing what was happening or why, Shadowbringers and the emotinoal rollercoaster ride that was, with its masterful character growth for many Scions and others. Endwalker where we felt the very world being lost to oblivion and learned the whole truth.
By comparison, Dawntrail thus far has'nt been very emotional for me. Endearing and sweet sure, but not emotional. It hasnt his me in the godsdamned FEELS like every other expansion to date.... yet.

Anywho, thats all I can think of for now. Sorry for my muddled musings! If I had to give DT MSQ a score, I'd say first 80% good, last 20% could have been fantastic but needed more time to flesh things out.

[Raiker]

If I could, I'd give this expansion a big "meh":

You're a multi-dimensional, universe saving hero in desperate need of a vacation. Conveniently, Wuk Lamat shows up and offers you a job to help her win her father's throne in a competition on a tropical resort. You were promised a low stakes, chill adventure with some competition against other scions. I figured you were meant to be a mentor to this hyper-naive character, but it was superficial.

Your role never really amounts to anything beyond placidly agreeing, nodding your head, slamming your fist into your palm, and occasionally clicking on things. She pretty much does everything herself with the occasional off-screen character appearing and guiding her instead of your character.

Just about all the characters from the previous expansion that have appeared have lost their personality. They all react the exact same way that your character does; nodding and placidly following along with what Wuk Lamat wants to do. Graha is the one character that shares his experiences with her while the others do no such thing.

Halfway through the story, you'd think that Wuk Lamat would have taken a backseat and the other characters would get some major screen time, i.e. Krile and Erenville. This never happens outside of a few MSQ markers in the last half of the fifth and sixth areas.

Instead, you're once again accosted by Wuk Lamat who "leads the way" to the new development which of course, is a multi-dimensional, universe ending threat. The rest of the story plays out like the first half with the cast doing whatever it is that Wuk Lamat wants.

The final fight actually killed it for me. I figured the fight would have been one that was meant to show off our character’s strength and resolve that we developed over the course of saving the known universe. Nope! Wuk Lamat breaks through space and time just to jump in front of our heroes and beat the last percentage of the final boss by herself as we are "inspired" by her to assist her in finishing it. Seriously, the buff is "inspired by Wuk Lamat".

The problem isn't the character, it's the hyper fixation on the character. The writing was just bad.

At least Estinien got to chill at a bar for a bit and hang. We never even got to eat the dang tacos!

Additionally:

There was so much lore to pull from. Barely if any was touched on.

Why did Tural have no idea about the final days? I don't recall it ever being mentioned once in 7.0, maybe I missed it?

How exactly was Zarool Ja planning on conquring the rest of the world when his nation had barely conceptualized any maritime vessels? A half dozen dragons brought his "advance fleet" down in a matter of moments and they have a colony chilling in northern Eorzea. Not to mention, he only got the upperhand by pulling a fast one on a society that had been in peace time for 80 years and he only got an advantage to that by a suprise attack! How was he about to roll up in Eorzea, Doma, and LANDLOCKED Garlemald who all are still primed for war due to the fact one just ended in their countries?

Who the heck made this dimesnional fusion key thing and why didn't the Acsians ever once use it?

And finally, Wuk, Koana, and company in Tural seek to get to know about all these cultures in thier land, but never once do any of them ever think to find out about our characters, who we are, what we've been through, and why we're so competent. If it is touched on, it's just brushed off as "Oh, that's over my head, anyways, back to Wuk Lamat!"

[kaynide]

Re: Why is Zoraal evil/Whats up with the kid:

Agreed; it could have been the zone 4 (and some of 5) story to explain that:

1) Zoraal is older than Lamar and Koana by a significant amount, let’s say 20+ years.
2) That he is in fact a clone of Galuul and raised by a distant/strict father (maybe Galuul just didn’t know how to be a father, despite his charisma)
3) Galuul’s failing as a father is what leads him to adopt, and have nursemaids to help out.
4) Ultimately, Galuul’s entire point of the rite was not reallllly to find a successor, but to teach Zoraal all the important things he failed to as a father, so that ultimately the three children could rule Tural together. Even if this fails annd Zoraal remains a villain, it would have andded a lot of depth. Galuul even says regardless of whether the rite was completed, he wouldn’t give up the throne unless he was satisfied with the result…the result he wa hoping for was to show his love and support for his son, and to make amends.

Theeeen, 5) We learn the kid is also a clone. Which Lamat adopts and decides to give him the life Zoraal should have gotten.

That’s all I wanted; a story of a father trying to be a better man for his son.

Re: What about End of Days

I think this is explained kinda sorta, but in the role quests. We know the EOD was mostly localized to Eorzea with rare occurrences elsewhere. There could have been one in Tural, but it wouldn’t have been much different from their rampaging what’s-it-calleds to the locals.

Re: Wtf no boats, Zoraal’s army weak!?

Probably just arrogance; being the biggest fish in a small pond, it’s hard to understand there are sharks in the an impossibly much larger ocean.

I think part of fleshing Zoraal out should have been his realization that the world is a far larger place than he realizes, but eh, needed that Soul Gobbling Queen for act 3…I guess.