How do you feel about Viper?

[Gr1mwolf]

Personally, I think the core rotation is really fun and the visuals are great. But it has literally nothing outside that rotation except Slither and role skills, which is kinda boring. No defensive ability or heal, no group buff, no utility, no resource charge for downtime.

Compared to something more recent like Reaper which has all of those things, it seems kinda… sloppy.
Currently, it doesn't even have the damage output to justify that single-mindedness.
It also makes solo content a real hassle; something DPS jobs already struggle with.

It even has various animation oversights, like the sheathed weapons not shifting when sitting or mounted to avoid clipping, the combined form having no super-sprint animation in CC, no altered sheathing/unsheathing animation or alternate pose.
The combined form itself appears to be a tacked on relic of something they decided to remove late in development.

It also suffers from starting at level 80, because they felt the need to give it the bare-minimum number of skills at that stage to avoid overwhelming players when they pick it up. This means the Viper gets royally screwed by the down-leveling from roulettes and fates.

Like I said though, the rotation is really fun at least. All the issues I listed aren't exactly huge. I'd say it takes the job from a 10/10 to more like an 8/10.

[CaedemSanguis]

It’s kind of fun and in line with other melees in terms of «*busyness*»

You need to pay attention to you’re ranged stacks and also on your debuff timer, while doing a good amount of positionals, the burst feels good and king of rewarding when you fit you’re second reawaken into raid buffs

[CKNovel]

I like VPR and got a solid grasp on the job (still away from perfecting it thought), it's fast and satisfying. But the big problem I have is that it just hit and does nothing else.
You only need to look at the debuff you inflict and manage your gauge, blue gauge and red diamonds.

The ranged attack should be seen more often on other melee job.

But:

• Outside of that, you have nothing else to do, melee DPS usually have higher armor or a cooldown to help them survive big hit, I wish VPR had that because it really feels fragile for almost no reason.
• I find it also difficult to track which positional you'll need to hit. I know it depends on the GCD before but that's little time to predict it. In comparison, RPR has the next positional shining in advance, if you know which sticker you'll want to build as SAM you know which positional is about to happen.
• The Dread GCDs, not fond of the positionals as you need to double weave between them, I usually pop true north because I forgot to place myself and I'm too lazy to hit the side positional.
• Reawakening breaks Dreadwinder GCDs, it's a skill issue but I wish it wouldn't, sometimes my debuff is too short to support two Reawakening and Dread Fangs isn't available to use between the two reawakening and I would like to be able to extend the duration of the debuff with Dreadwinder.

The rotation quickly becomes monotonous, follow the glowing button, don't overcap, maintain your debuff until you can burst/double burst. Other jobs have that little something that rewards you with reduced damage taken that you can put whenever you feel it necessary.

VPR lacks something like this, it is limited to role skill.

[rewd]

I like VPR and got a solid grasp on the job (still away from perfecting it thought), it's fast and satisfying. But the big problem I have is that it just hit and does nothing else.
You only need to look at the debuff you inflict and manage your gauge, blue gauge and red diamonds.

The ranged attack should be seen more often on other melee job.

But:

• Outside of that, you have nothing else to do, melee DPS usually have higher armor or a cooldown to help them survive big hit, I wish VPR had that because it really feels fragile for almost no reason.
• I find it also difficult to track which positional you'll need to hit. I know it depends on the GCD before but that's little time to predict it. In comparison, RPR has the next positional shining in advance, if you know which sticker you'll want to build as SAM you know which positional is about to happen.
• The Dread GCDs, not fond of the positionals as you need to double weave between them, I usually pop true north because I forgot to place myself and I'm too lazy to hit the side positional.
• Reawakening breaks Dreadwinder GCDs, it's a skill issue but I wish it wouldn't, sometimes my debuff is too short to support two Reawakening and Dread Fangs isn't available to use between the two reawakening and I would like to be able to extend the duration of the debuff with Dreadwinder.

The rotation quickly becomes monotonous, follow the glowing button, don't overcap, maintain your debuff until you can burst/double burst. Other jobs have that little something that rewards you with reduced damage taken that you can put whenever you feel it necessary.

VPR lacks something like this, it is limited to role skill.

Positionals always alternate, if you hit rear you'll get flank and vice versa

[KDSilver]

I like VPR and got a solid grasp on the job (still away from perfecting it thought), it's fast and satisfying. But the big problem I have is that it just hit and does nothing else.
You only need to look at the debuff you inflict and manage your gauge, blue gauge and red diamonds.

The ranged attack should be seen more often on other melee job.

But:

• Outside of that, you have nothing else to do, melee DPS usually have higher armor or a cooldown to help them survive big hit, I wish VPR had that because it really feels fragile for almost no reason.
• I find it also difficult to track which positional you'll need to hit. I know it depends on the GCD before but that's little time to predict it. In comparison, RPR has the next positional shining in advance, if you know which sticker you'll want to build as SAM you know which positional is about to happen.
• The Dread GCDs, not fond of the positionals as you need to double weave between them, I usually pop true north because I forgot to place myself and I'm too lazy to hit the side positional.
• Reawakening breaks Dreadwinder GCDs, it's a skill issue but I wish it wouldn't, sometimes my debuff is too short to support two Reawakening and Dread Fangs isn't available to use between the two reawakening and I would like to be able to extend the duration of the debuff with Dreadwinder.

The rotation quickly becomes monotonous, follow the glowing button, don't overcap, maintain your debuff until you can burst/double burst. Other jobs have that little something that rewards you with reduced damage taken that you can put whenever you feel it necessary.

VPR lacks something like this, it is limited to role skill.

Green flank red rear.
The one which lights up = the one you need to do.

If you need any help to memorize. It's simpler than it looks

[CKNovel]

Green flank red rear.
The one which lights up = the one you need to do.

If you need any help to memorize. It's simpler than it looks

I know that, it's not the problem I have with the positionals.
What I wish for is to know which positionals is going to end-up as the final GCD and have more time to position myself and predict where I'll have to go.
All I know is that it depends on your 2nd GCD, Hunter's Sting will result in a flank, Swiftskin's sting will result in a back.

Also "Green is flank" doesn't always work as Hunter's coil and Swiftskin's coil are both green but are respectively flank and back.

[Rydia_Misuto]

I like VPR and got a solid grasp on the job (still away from perfecting it thought), it's fast and satisfying. But the big problem I have is that it just hit and does nothing else.
You only need to look at the debuff you inflict and manage your gauge, blue gauge and red diamonds.

The ranged attack should be seen more often on other melee job.

But:

• Outside of that, you have nothing else to do, melee DPS usually have higher armor or a cooldown to help them survive big hit, I wish VPR had that because it really feels fragile for almost no reason.
• I find it also difficult to track which positional you'll need to hit. I know it depends on the GCD before but that's little time to predict it. In comparison, RPR has the next positional shining in advance, if you know which sticker you'll want to build as SAM you know which positional is about to happen.
• The Dread GCDs, not fond of the positionals as you need to double weave between them, I usually pop true north because I forgot to place myself and I'm too lazy to hit the side positional.
• Reawakening breaks Dreadwinder GCDs, it's a skill issue but I wish it wouldn't, sometimes my debuff is too short to support two Reawakening and Dread Fangs isn't available to use between the two reawakening and I would like to be able to extend the duration of the debuff with Dreadwinder.

The rotation quickly becomes monotonous, follow the glowing button, don't overcap, maintain your debuff until you can burst/double burst. Other jobs have that little something that rewards you with reduced damage taken that you can put whenever you feel it necessary.

VPR lacks something like this, it is limited to role skill.

What you start the combo with is what dictates whether your positional is rear or side. That's plenty of time to know in advance, given it's a decision you make yourself.

[AvoSturmfaust]

I like VPR and got a solid grasp on the job (still away from perfecting it thought), it's fast and satisfying. But the big problem I have is that it just hit and does nothing else.
You only need to look at the debuff you inflict and manage your gauge, blue gauge and red diamonds.

The ranged attack should be seen more often on other melee job.

But:

• Outside of that, you have nothing else to do, melee DPS usually have higher armor or a cooldown to help them survive big hit, I wish VPR had that because it really feels fragile for almost no reason.
• I find it also difficult to track which positional you'll need to hit. I know it depends on the GCD before but that's little time to predict it. In comparison, RPR has the next positional shining in advance, if you know which sticker you'll want to build as SAM you know which positional is about to happen.
• The Dread GCDs, not fond of the positionals as you need to double weave between them, I usually pop true north because I forgot to place myself and I'm too lazy to hit the side positional.
• Reawakening breaks Dreadwinder GCDs, it's a skill issue but I wish it wouldn't, sometimes my debuff is too short to support two Reawakening and Dread Fangs isn't available to use between the two reawakening and I would like to be able to extend the duration of the debuff with Dreadwinder.

The rotation quickly becomes monotonous, follow the glowing button, don't overcap, maintain your debuff until you can burst/double burst. Other jobs have that little something that rewards you with reduced damage taken that you can put whenever you feel it necessary.

VPR lacks something like this, it is limited to role skill.

Dont get me wrong but most of the things you stated are a YOU problem

Viper Positionals are color coded so you can see them actually 3 gcds ahead

Bloodbath is absolut insane on viper so no need to have a defensive skill, if you die due dmg which you cant avoid its clearly mitigation/healer fault

Dont use Dreadwinder 15s ahead of Serpents Ire, plan your burst better 15s before ire comes up just use Dual Blade Combos back to back if you play with 2.12(2.50) you can easy do that without overcapping your debuff and start your burst automatic around 36s

True North is actually kind of nice for it, you cant cover all of them because TN 45s, Dreadwinder 40s but it is still something to help you get used too it.

[CKNovel]

What you start the combo with is what dictates whether your positional is rear or side. That's plenty of time to know in advance, given it's a decision you make yourself.

No, it's the second GCD that defines wether you'll end on the side or flank, you can try it yourself.

Dont get me wrong but most of the things you stated are a YOU problem
True North is actually kind of nice for it, you cant cover all of them because TN 45s, Dreadwinder 40s but it is still something to help you get used too it.

And... What's wrong with a "you problem"? I'm sharing my feedback and how I feel, of course it's a "you problem". That's the point of this topic!

As for the positionals, the amount of misinformation I've seen on this topic just reinforce my idea it needs to be better communicated.
Since the positionals are tied on the buff you'll need to refresh, have the buff on the job bar, above left and right blade so that you can mentally map that smaller number left will mean flank, smaller number right will mean back.

Bloodbath is self healing, not mitigation, that's a huge difference. And all melee jobs have Bloodbath. It might synergize well, Viper is still the job with the least amoung of healing/mitigation.

[Mikey_R]

As for the positionals, the amount of misinformation I've seen on this topic just reinforce my idea it needs to be better communicated.
Since the positionals are tied on the buff you'll need to refresh, have the buff on the job bar, above left and right blade so that you can mentally map that smaller number left will mean flank, smaller number right will mean back.

The way you have worded this makes it seem the last combo hit is determined by the damage/speed buff, this is false.

How it works qt a basic level is, once you do a finisher, it buffs another one. It always alternates Flank > Rear > Flank etc. The finisher buffs are also known as 'venom' buffs. These do not stack with each other, so you can only have 1 up at a time.

The Viper Sight gauge then just tells you how to get to the buffed finisher, regardless of your damage/speed buffs. You can prove this yourself by manipulating the buff timers. Press Steel gangs > Hunter's Sting > Flanksting Strike > Dreadwinder > Hunter's Coil > Swiftskin's Coil > Steel Fangs. At this point, you will notice Swiftskin's Sting is lit up, despite the damage buff having a lower timer. However, Swiftskin's Sting is the button you need to press to get to the rear positionals and consequentially the finisher that is buffed by Flanksting Strike. The reason it seems it tracks the lower buff between the damage and the speed is that is just how the combat flows. It is worth knowing this though if you happen to use the Dreadwinder follow ups in a different order based on positionals, which can mess with the thought process.

TL:DR, Viper sight gauge only tells you how to get to the next finisher buffed by venom and has nothing to do with the damage/speed buffs.