What would you change to improve Dawntrail’s MSQ writing?

[Jeeqbit]

There’s a lot of talk about how terrible the reception of the MSQ this expansion has been

Oh wow. I thought it was a great expansion. But no surprise that the forums are negative about it as usual.

Krile also could have had more opportunities to be actively trying to trace her grandfather’s steps

She didn't want to step on the toes of the rite of succession. She knew her objective was secondary tbh, and her anxiety was conveyed.

Wuk Lamat had her little pep talk about being able to rely on others a little too early imo

Is it ever too early? The difference between Wuk Lamat and Zoraal Ja is: Wuk Lamat beat both Galool Ja Ja in his prime and Zoraal Ja due to relying on others. Zoraal Ja lost both fights because he wanted to do everything himself.

That is a point Final Fantasy as a franchise is all about. The team taking down the "do it all myself" person.

The main takeaway from the second half of the story for me is that Sphene is introduced way too late for me to really care about her as a major antagonist. If she had been hinted to earlier, maybe that would have changed, but her late arrival coupled with my limited knowledge of FF9 left me feeling pretty indifferent to the last 2 areas.

She felt around for long enough to me personally. I do know about FF9 so I had a better understanding of what it meant and I suspect that is why they went with it. Because a lot of people played 9 and would have more of a connection to it. However it also is difficult that they turned what 9 is... into that. It feels a lot like taking 9's lore and literally destroying it.

A lot of people have been saying Krile and Erenville should have been the main focus of the second half of the story and I 1000% agree.

Most of the last zone is all about them.

There should have been a lot more interaction between Erenville and Cahcuia

The story explained it well. He's shy and introverted. Not very good with emotions. They came pouring out at the end.

He also clarified he had actually spoken to her without us seeing, perhaps when he was missing between quest objectives, since she can teleport around.

My main complaint is that everything was over way too quickly.

Not for me. It took me about 11 days (doing all sidequests). It feels a lot longer if you do sidequests and more fulfilling.

The rite of succession should have been the entire 6.0 storyline, ending with Wuk becoming dawnservant

I actually think the story was all about Wuk Lamat still. Sure, they became Dawnservant earlier than expected, but it was so they could say she has matured now and that Zoraal Ja too has changed in his own way due to it being 30 years, so at their final battle, neither of them are like they were at the start. She may already be Dawnservant, but part of the point of the battle was "proving" she is actually Dawnservant material by defeating him and that it wasn't a fluke.

[TaleraRistain]

what i loved about Venat is that she was essentially a god to us. superior in every way. but she asked about us, she cared about us, our story our prowess. she treated us more like a human being than wuk lamat does. we're just back to being ARR wol. just a weapon. point us at the enemy and go.

I've seen that said about us with previous expansions but I have never felt so much like a weapon just pointed at things as this expansion. We, the Scions, and Erenville weren't allowed to be real, actual people because everything had to be about Wuk Lamat and the rest of us only mattered as her cheerleading squad. We couldn't offer her any help. We couldn't share any experiences. We couldn't give any insights. She already knew everything to do exactly and the rest of us could just nod along.

The Scions may often see eye to eye but there is at least discussion and different inputs and consideration for everyone in the group so it feels like an actual discussion where everyone is heard. That was all unfortunately lacking here. The only time I felt it was present was when we were alone with other characters, which wasn't often.

[Turtledeluxe]

Tbh, it doesn't make sense to let different people helm entire expansions imo, even if an expert writer is overseeing them. 7.0 proves that. You end up with lore and character inconsistencies inevitably. Some writers leave small nuances that other writers cannot even conceive of, but audiences notice and expect.

And this is the main driver of inconsistent storytelling in XIV. Its way too many cooks in the kitchen.

[Vyrerus]

To improve Dawntrail they would have to make major changes to the characters as well as to the progress points of the plot.

They could have made Wuk Lamat more aware of the cultures she's been surrounded with since she was a child. I don't know what passes for an education in Tural, but it's clear that education of some flavor happens, and that Gulool Ja Ja cares about it to some degree, as he sent Koana off to learn in Sharlayan.

But Wuk Lamat should know more about her native land. Instead of simply remembering the Hanu Hanu festival and Papa in the float, she should have remembered energy or light coming out of the float or something to signal that repairing the float was a good idea. As if you opt to tell Wuk Lamat it's a bad idea, the Scions just chirp at you that Wuk Lamat has to be followed as the contestant for good or ill in the rite. Her entire rational that it will work because it will make the people happy, so we might learn more about what we can do for the actual problem. Of course, the script just has it wind up that this was the right path all along.

After Wuk Lamat fails to effectively combat even a single sword swing from Bakool Ja Ja, there could have been a training montage or two, where the WoL is actively training her or something, so that when it came time for Wuk solo instance, instead of just, "Well the setting has Dynamis, so she's just doing what the WoL does with Dynamis." There's some rationale for the WoL standing aside other than Wuk's pride and Bakool's insults. They could have even gotten fun with the training. Disciples of War could be shown doing weapon swinging practice side by side with her. Disciples of Magic could be shown sitting on her back cross legged while she does push ups or something, maybe with candles under her chest like Zorro.

It probably would have worked better if in Mamook, Wuk Lamat was the one throwing in her chance at winning the rite in favor of Koana. Koana is the one who actually solves the problem, and resolves to beat the underhanded magic simulacrum of Gulool Ja Ja in his prime that's being used to stonewall anyone that's not Bakool Ja Ja by any means necessary. If they want us to like Wuk Lamat, having her recognize when someone is a better candidate comes as more sincere when it's done like Koana did, and sacrificed his bid. If it'd been the other way round, we wouldn't have that simpy step-brother porn allusion inn room scene where Koana comes and tells us how jealous he is that Wuk Lamat says we're the bomb diggity, which the MSQ really doesn't give us any clear signs of, since Wuk ignores every suggestion the WoL has. It could have been Wuk moping about giving up to Koana, and bristling about not getting to be Dawnservant, only for Koana to surprise her instead by suggesting she acts as his general/head of resolve.

We should have had a few scenes of the Scions and Krile trying to tinker with the Golden City gate to Alexandria. Getting there, seeing it, accidentally activating the bridge over to it, but then just going home to get crowned with no curiosity about it really rang hollow. "Looks kinda Allagan but not, oh well, let's go home." Excuse me?Aren't Krile and G'raha Tia both Allagan studies specialists? Didn't the Students of Baldesion work closely with Saint Coineach's Find a lot? They should be addicted to going there.

Instead of Ketenramm just so happening to have all 7 keystones on himself, it probably would have made more sense if Zoraal Ja either followed us in surreptitiously, and then waited until we were gone, or if he's done an underhanded pledge to Koana or Wuk, only to betray them upon getting there. The villain essentially finding the Genie's Lamp off screen definitely did what it sought to do with coming out of nowhere for the heroes, but it really came off seeming like it happened because nobody gave a damn about The Golden City.

We should have met Erenville's mom and Heritage Found before the Thunderdome came about. We should have gotten to ride on the regular train as it was, before it was a battleclad chariot. This would have given Cahciua more emotional impact as well as seeing the timeskip for Heritage Found in ruins more impact as well. Speaking of that, they probably should have let us cross over into Living Memory in a dream or Echo vision or something to see all its splendor when we first found the Golden City, because the loss of Living Memory happened too succinctly to really be impactful for the people's heads it didn't go over.

Seems like a big ass stretch that Sphene knows jack diddily about the Ascians when she knows about the Reflections and Interdimensional Fusion. It also seems like a big ass stretch that the Ascians didn't know that Alexandria or the South Seas Lalafells had that key, which I am calling the Holy Grail. Emet-selch rattled this off as a place to visit, so the Ascians should have been all over getting the tech to perform rejoinings without having to trigger calamities. It would have been much faster. So I woulda had them delve into why that didn't happen/give us the exactly identity of Alexandra's shard and what lead up to them discovering Interdimensional Fusion and maybe shown the Ascians orchestrating Lindblum against Sphene or something.

Sphene should have been able to tell us her favorite food, but her facial expression should have remained a grimace because she's forgotten how it actually tastes or something.

Sphene should have leapt into Otis and moved him out of the way. As awesome as his heroic sacrifice was, it was completely undercut by Sphene being able to bot body hop, not actually being in danger at all.

Show us Gulool Ja's mom or the cloning facility. This no moms allowed schtick with villains was old hat when it was the Garleans showing us heirs without moms, and it isn't any cuter with discount Argonians.

Have our characters behave like themselves. Friends should refer to each other fondly. There should have been more shenanigans with the Twins sibling antics. An actual fight against Thancred and Urianger would have been appreciated.

[Hypnotic13371337]

My immediate additions to the story would be

1. Make the Alpaca catching trial Wuk Lamat has to do be a Solo Role playing instance the player has to play through. Ontop of it being a chance to put in more game play and have funny Alpaca moments with things like limit break spit aoes or something, How fucked up is it that we focus on Wuk SO MUCH this expac but in this one instance, we dont even follow her as a player on this journey, considering shes the main character and all.

2. Make the Scion VS Scion element more prominent. Remember when they mentioned that we would have to fight other Scions that are helping other claiments? Where the fuck was that??? It LITERALLY only boiled down to Urianger asking about our boat, and Thancred caving in a passageway that we spend like 5 mins walking around.... After that, we team up from there on out. IDK about you guys, but I was expecting a solo duty fight with Koana and his grp AT LEAST. or maybe hearing our Scions mentioning like "I knew Thancred could be snarky, but wow, caving us off like that"

Thats just off the top of my head, but those points really irked me going through the MSQ... I COULD bring up the forced idiotization of the WHOLE PARTY when Wuk gets kidnapped.... but other than saying to either rewrite that part out entirely, or structure that whole section differently, there isnt much more to say lol

[Gortys]

I think to sum up what you are saying in part 1 is maybe the writers should have considered previous character development when writing. This is an issue in many areas I feel both in our party and in Koana's.

As for part 2? I really didn't feel they did a good job of showing these different cultures which means they probably didn't spend much time developing them past tacos and llamas. All of StB was a change in leadership for these areas and how the people of these areas accept this (or don't). Maybe some of this will be done in 7.1 and beyond, but I think Sphene, Alexandria, etc could have been intro'd then.
That said, I don't really know what they have planned in 7.1 and beyond so it could be even better than what we think.

[aTanpopo]

The story explained it well. He's shy and introverted. Not very good with emotions. They came pouring out at the end.

He also clarified he had actually spoken to her without us seeing, perhaps when he was missing between quest objectives, since she can teleport around.

Why did they have to do that off screen, when Cahcuia literally asks our WoL directly when we enter solution 9 what we have been up to together? We had an invitation to join in that conversation but it happens off screen because Wuk Lamat asks us to hold her hand cause the big city is scary and she doesn't want to explore alone (but she can definitely run the nation we helped her win leadership over).
Also Erenville doesn't come across as shy, reserved maybe, but in the times we see him interact with people (in both Endwalker and Dawntrail) he is assertive and confident in his abilities. Sure we are told by NPCs that (at least growing up) he shunned company, but obviously he's changed in the time he's been overseas to the point he invites us (WoL) to go with him to Shaaloni. But those aspects of his personality aren't what I would have been looking for them to touch on, more expanding on the very little we know about the relationship the two have other than she's his mentor and taught him what he knows about nature, and that she told him to find the City of Gold when he was a kid. When it finally gets the point where we are meant to get a payoff for this, it happens off screen.

Outside of that, the only other thing we hear is from a single sentence from 1 NPC who says Cahcuia left him with her when she would go off on adventures. That point is not expanded on at all until it is vaguely referenced when he snaps at her before turning off the terminal. Leaving that outpouring of emotion until the literal second to last quest of the game feels like speedrunning interactions that could have been littered throughout the time we spent with his mother in Heritage Found, but we just have to think "they did it off screen I guess" which imo is poor storytelling.

She didn't want to step on the toes of the rite of succession. She knew her objective was secondary tbh, and her anxiety was conveyed.

Anxiety? What anxiety? She never thought something bad happened to her Grandfather in Tural to my knowledge, she just wanted to find out why he went to the New World and she never knew anything about it. If anything she came across excited and curious to find out why he came to Tural in the first place. She knew her objective was secondary, we all did, but that doesn't mean we can't include her actually pursuing said objective instead of again just saying "she asked about stuff off screen." You say most of the last zone was about Erenville and Krile, but its like 50% at best.

I didn't hate the expansion, in a previous post I made I said overall I'd give it a 7/10, but the writing in this game is usually top tier and leaving characters feeling empty with my brain having to cook up ways to fill in the gaps is not what I expect from the writers. I'm not even a writer myself and I know "show not tell" is the bread and butter of storytelling, what the hell happened?

[Maxilor]

"What would you change to improve Dawntrail’s MSQ writing?"

Go to Ishikawa's house, knock on her door, and get on my little knees and BEG her to come back.

Money is no object. Wheel out the Cash Pyramid™.

[MisterNublet]

No rite of succession storyline.

[Jojoya]

Don't repeat use of character types. Wuk was just Lyse 2.0 and just as annoying.

Leave out the childish body fluid jokes. If you're going to give a character a medical condition like motion sickness and keep bringing it back up, make it relevant to the story in some fashion instead of just an excuse to show a character puking over and over.

If FF games are supposed to be a blend of Sword & Sorcery and technology, then blend them into a single story instead of separating them into 2 distinct stories. The contrast between level 90-96 and 97-100 was disruptive and immersion breaking. I'm confused as to why Cid and the Ironworks weren't brought in as consultants once it became obvious that Alexandria was a highly technological civilization.

Despite the flaws in the first half, I enjoyed it overall. There was a good amount of world building which is always nice in this type of game. I just think it could have been done better with more character originality and an expansion of the Rite of Succession.

The second half I couldn't get into at all. It didn't feel like it belonged and should have been addressed in an expansion of its own. It was also about world destruction, not world building. Wasn't this supposed to be the vacation expansion devoid of world-ending threats until time for the post-patch MSQ to lead into 8.0?