Character disconnect and disappointing Player Agency in Dawntrail's MSQ [Spoilers]

[fioravictorine]

Real talk I've found a lot of the role quests and their characters (excluding caster) more interesting than Wuk Lamat's journey.

Yes this so much. They are actually funny and had me chuckle instead of Wuk's lame seasickness joke that gets repeated a billion times or her cringe Tsundere scenes

[Basteala]

Yes this so much. They are actually funny and had me chuckle instead of Wuk's lame seasickness joke that gets repeated a billion times or her cringe Tsundere scenes

Even on their own merits, though. I find some of the characters more compelling in general, even though they have so much less time to tell their story. The Tank and Melee ones in particular come to mind.

The Caster Role quest kinda fell flat for me though.

[ThorneDynasty]

The main character in the caster role quest is pretty forgettable, but even that one is a masterclass showcase of how to give a silent protagonist agency even outside token combat based gameplay.

Like just the simple hand motion to block another character from escalating a potential hostage situation? Why wasn't that in MSQ when the same scenario happens at least twice there? That would be the mentor thing to do.

I mean I've probably harped enough on this, but in the MSQ we are instead told to sit the fuck down by Wuk Lamat or Gulool Ja Ja or someone, apparently completely incapable of defying the last person who gave us an order. We are also constantly making ourselves look stupid by pulling a weapon and then doing nothing with it for aforementioned reason. Like even if you make WoL ridiculously passive, you could at least make it seem like it's their own choice not to interfere, you know? Not ideal but still a huge improvement from the lapdog portrayal we got.

[Bright-Flower]

I haven't done caster yet, but outside of liking the running gag with the Namazu and the arrows in the melee role quest, I wasn't that invested in the characters in the role storylines. The villains have some fun moments. But the protagonist charcters havne't been anything special imo.

[Voidmage]

I haven't done caster yet, but outside of liking the running gag with the Namazu and the arrows in the melee role quest, I wasn't that invested in the characters in the role storylines. The villains have some fun moments. But the protagonist charcters havne't been anything special imo.

I actually liked the caster one.
Goofy? Yes.
But Tekepe was a nice character to hang around with a good mix of mentoring her and having her own personality, she was also cute as they come.

The antagonist was also quite funny. Maybe sometimes a bit too much but even the in game characters didn’t take him too serious.

[RabendaShin]

I actually liked the caster one.
Goofy? Yes.
But Tekepe was a nice character to hang around with a good mix of mentoring her and having her own personality, she was also cute as they come.

The antagonist was also quite funny. Maybe sometimes a bit too much but even the in game characters didn’t take him too serious.

I've only completed the Healer and Caster role quests, and am making my way with melee dps. All the quests are goofy in a sense, but not annoyingly so. Take for example the huntress not being able to shoot the bow and blaming it on whatever, with the arrows always landing near a poor Namazu. The Namazu gag also didn't feel out of place, it's a sidequest after all. For the caster, the falling rocks and hubris of the antagonist did become tiresomem but it still tried to mix it up. Bonus: Tepeke had more development over 4 quests than Wuk Lamat got to have in 21 hours of MSQ.

I'd add to that that the introduction of the league of 'villains' we're dealing with had an amazingly well-written introduction, immediately grabbing my attention and making me want to delve into it. What's better is that, while cartoon villain in their motives, the baddies had their reasons - be it mischief, or desiring adoration. That's the low stakes I expected to be present in Dawntrail more.

[Carin-Eri]

IDK, I feel like Shadowbringers is consistently pretty fantastic all the way through. Yeah, it's got great highs, but any lows are very minor and it's still absolutely filled with fantastic moments that aren't just "big awesome" ones. When I think of Shadowbringers, I don't just think of the epic scenes against Emet at the end, I think of the really haunting and moody opening sequence, going to the library to learn about the First and the librarian showing us those gorgeous illustrations, the beautiful music and mood of entering each zone for the first time with Ardbert's melancholy narration, all the funny and delightful moments with all the different fey creatures in Il Mheg, the beautiful scene where we watch the Night's Blessed hold a funeral, Y'shtola asking Urianger to describe the night sky, all the moments of Emet-Selch tagging along with us and the way the other characters bounce off him, Lyna falling to the ground after a battle and cursing her inability to save everyone, the Exarch leaving sandwiches for the WoL, Alisaie yelling at the other Scions that they can't promise that they'll figure out how to fix the WoL's light corruption, the scene where we talk to the shade of Hythlodaeus in Amaurot, every conversation with Ardbert... the list could go on. Point is, it's not just memories of the big epic moments blocking out a bunch of meh stuff. The whole thing is great, including - especially, even - the quieter moments. (And all the stuff with Ran'jit you mentioned doesn't really bother me... like, I guess I can see what you're saying, but I've just never had an issue with the way that character was done.)

Endwalker I think definitely does have some proper lows, but it still has a lot of very good quieter moments in it as well IMO, not just big moments.

Absolutely agree with all points. I'm simply saying that whilst it was excellent - arguably the best expansion we've had - it wasn't absolutely perfect. But that's just my view, resulting from the fact that I didn't enjoy anything about Ran'jit; I maintain the opinion that he felt shoehorned into the story, was poorly explained, and remained around longer than was necessary (again - he should've been defeated by Thancred and served no purpose following that fight).

Eitherway, I also maintain my point that Dawntrail didn't really have a standout moment like both Shadowbringers and Endwalker did. As said in my earlier post, it tried to, but ruined the moment by moving the spotlight.

[BigBoom550]

-snipped-

More than that, Shadowbringers actively tried to have 'downtime' moments and delineated mini-arcs by sending you back to rest up. Dawntrail felt like it was constantly trying to one-up itself, while Shadowbringers felt like it was trying to spread the emotional highs out a little.

Characters got time to shine in their own ways, too. The Exarch was first, then you meet Alisaie and Alphinaud in their particular courses and work with them in ways that make sense given their character. Thancred you meet up with serving the role he always has- protecting Minfilia- but now there's a twist to it. Urianger's brought forward into the spotlight a little from the relatively background/secondary position he'd taken prior and allowed to show his smarts. Y'shtola has her own sort of stuff going on (She's often narratively neglected but there's... not a lot to do with her, in a lot of ways.)

In each case though, while still present, characters who'd been introduced back into the plot moved back a step or two to allow others to take position at the fore. There were times when the Exarch was the prominent character, other times the Twins or Thancred or Minfilia/Ryne. Even Emet, darling of the expac, actively moved in and out of the plot as necessary and while he moved it, he was not always on-screen hogging your attention. He introduces himself, then leaves. He arrives to discuss things from time to time. He gives you a hand when Y'shtola Flows herself again. He's a theater kid, for sure, but he knows when to exit stage right and left to give the characters- in-story- their own breathing room to interact and analyze what he's saying, and to give you as a player a *break* from him to interact with others. Even if you dislike Emet-Selch, you can't argue that he wasn't nearly as pervasive, prevalent, or all-consuming as Wuk Lamat was. Even with his grandest display in Amaurot, he gave you the space to explore and experience the city itself. He wasn't hanging over your shoulder going on and on and on, he was off with the Exarch and hence off-screen. It wasn't just showing Amaurot, but showing Amaurot as remembered by Emet, granting insight into the character without him standing there going 'I loved my people because they were friendly and polite!'.

Hell, the standout moment of Amaurot for some people basically takes place at the DMV because the story was willing to restrain itself when it needed to. Just a scene where you have a polite, earnest conversation with the shade of someone who just wants to talk for a while. That's all it was, and because the story wasn't beating you over the head with Emet's persona, it worked.

There was a willingness to let characters have their own stories and resolutions, even if in some cases- as you mentioned with Ran'jit- that ended up a bit bungled.