Character disconnect and disappointing Player Agency in Dawntrail's MSQ [Spoilers]

[Isala]

But those negatives are all but forgotten because of the aforementioned moments of awesome. Unfortunately, Dawntrail doesn't really have one of those moments per-se. The final boss might have been one if not for the limelight being redirected to Wuk Lamat. I might have said that the 'Vrtra to the Rescue' cutscene might qualify.... but since it was an Endwalker character, and they played Endwalker music, I think that cutscene relies too heavily on nostalgia.

The entire expansion tries to play the Nostalgia card. "Remember the Vanu?! Remember the Goblins?! Remember the Great Serpent of Ronka?! Remember all these things and moments from past expansions that you loved?!" Hell, there is an actual NPC called Nostalgia...

See, the problem with reminding us of the enjoyable moments that came before, is that it also highlights that there are almost no moments like that in DT that don't have to milk nostalgia. All it managed to do is go "Hey! Remember when the game DIDN'T suck ass? Too bad. Here's more Wuk Lamat."

[Raven2014]

The entire expansion tries to play the Nostalgia card. "Remember the Vanu?! Remember the Goblins?! Remember the Great Serpent of Ronka?! Remember all these things and moments from past expansions that you loved?!" Hell, there is an actual NPC called Nostalgia...

See, the problem with reminding us of the enjoyable moments that came before, is that it also highlights that there are almost no moments like that in DT that don't have to milk nostalgia. All it managed to do is go "Hey! Remember when the game DIDN'T suck ass? Too bad. Here's more Wuk Lamat."

That, and also some very obvious attempt at compensating, or at least that's what I think. Y'stohla have a pretty big simp club, but never once it feels they're trying to force her character in your face. Whether with Wuk it could be the writer know the conceived a shallow characters so they try to compensate with a make believe attempt, hoping to ... idk - "trick" the players into buying it? Would it explain why every other NPCs suddenly lose all their personality to join Wuk's cheerleading squad.

[Isala]

That, and also some very obvious attempt at compensating, or at least that's what I think. Y'stohla have a pretty big simp club, but never once it feels they're trying to force her character in your face. Whether with Wuk it could be the writer know the conceived a shallow characters so they try to compensate with a make believe attempt, hoping to ... idk - "trick" the players into buying it? Would it explain why every other NPCs suddenly lose all their personality to join Wuk's cheerleading squad.

There is no singular moment in the expansion that highlights Wuk's effect on every other character better than her kidnapping. As soon as she's out of focus, we see competency, we see the same characters we've grown to know and love, shining in their specific roles. Seeing Thancred, with all his espionage skills on full display was a treat. Being treated as the muscle we are, as we baited out that guy and his goons. That was great. And the VERY SECOND we untie that stupid cat, every single character in that same cutscene immediately loses 90% of their personality.

[arstoka]

-snip-

While I don't necessarily disagree, the primary issue, as has been covered several times over in the varying threads in the forum, is the writing.

The entire story is focused on Wuk Lamat, her journey and her perspectives as she pursues her desire to become the Dawnservant.

The reason why the sidequests worked and the main story did not is a myriad of technical writing issues. To break them down, the writer(s) wished to focus on a central figure, to make said figure likeable and the only way they knew how to do this was to have everything revolve around them.

The narrative often refuses to engage with, give ample time to, and create character dynamics with the travelling party because, as I mentioned before, the writers may be insecure or egoistic in their beliefs of the players needing to/liking their protagonist. This is merely speculation of course.

Because of the inherent need to have a new "marketable" character, the writer(s) failed to understand what makes a narrative compelling.

Yes, we like to see characters grow and develop, we like to see them succeed. We also like to see how they engage with others and the world around them. Erenville being native to Tural and a "close friend" to Wuk Lamat is barely explored because the narrative is far too concerned with making sure that Wuk Lamat can be a 'tour guide' as well as cultural ambassador, comedy relief and, super powerful badass.

She is attempting to fulfill all the driving factors of each narrative, and when she isn't, her presence is mandated in some shape or form.

For example, Shaolaani's small sidequest is primarily focused on Wuk Lamat's nurse maid's bracelet being stolen, one that was graciously gifted to her by Wuk Lamat. We have little time to learn about the people of Shaolaani and their culture before and after.

This is because the narrative refuses to give any sort of space to the other characters for them to speak about the world, the people, and engage with others outside of trying to further the development of Wuk Lamat.

The sidequests were facilitated by the WOL because we need to be there to experience the events (and for gameplay purposes) however, the stories are self-contained and focus on the main characters who have, more or less, equal amounts of screen time to converse, reflect and engage with all parties. The focus is distributed evenly to the development of all (the two NPCs grow as characters, we learn more about the world and develop connections to these people).

Characters are allowed to reflect on what they learned, to speak their theories to others. It becomes an issue when the only information that is commented on is solely for the purpose of attempting to reinforce a character's behaviours/personality/ideologies/"""development"" (which happens far too frequently in Dawntrail).

[Basteala]

This post will contain spoilers for the Dawntrail MSQ.

I am about to finish my Dawntrail MSQ experience, and am reflecting upon the story told. There will be paraphrasing, so do correct me if I am absolutely incorrect in what I remember from the story.

An MMORPG needs to railroad the player character for plot reasons or mechanical ones, but in previous story experiences it all seemed relatively natural. There were always good reasons to do the things we needed to do, even if we didn't agree with them. We were also able to voice that disagreement, albeit in limited means.
FFXIV has never been a game about meaningful choices (we are mere actors in a grand play), yet somehow this is the first time playing where I feel an absolute disconnect with my character and the choices presented for her to take.

The time this disconnect hit me hardest was when Wuk Lamat asked me to refer to her as "lamaty'i", a term of endearment reserved for family. I had not particularly enjoyed much of my time glued to the third promise, so I opted to respond with the usually delightful "..." option expecting at least a somewhat snide comment. Instead, one of the Scions, a character I care for and trust, informs Wuk my character is "at a loss for words" for being asked this...[chopped due to character limit]

While I don't agree with every point here, I definitely agree with the feeling of disconnect. Although for me it comes at one of the weirdest points: Urqopacha, when we're confronting those Yok Hoy who are not aligned with Gulool Ja Ja. And again, in Living Memory. This has always *kind of* been a problem with the "why is the WoL just standing there?" moments, but it never really crept into the story in meaningful ways outside of that until now. This is kind of my biggest problem with Wuk Lamat too--not the character herself, but the fact that the story bends itself backwards to fit her ideals and prove her right even when common sense would dictate otherwise.

And the fact it makes us bend over backwards to do it too makes it kind of personal.

I once watched a film critic's take on this in "Anatomy of a Failure" for certain movies that fell flat, and in one of them, he mentions how a big failing of one movie was that the hero wasn't pushing the plot forward, the plot was pushing him forward, and it kind of feels the same way here.

[RabendaShin]

I once watched a film critic's take on this in "Anatomy of a Failure" for certain movies that fell flat, and in one of them, he mentions how a big failing of one movie was that the hero wasn't pushing the plot forward, the plot was pushing him forward, and it kind of feels the same way here.

I studied literature and film, and I know that particular critic’s channel. I’m a big fan. You could say I view all media I take in through the lens of a film critic, and perhaps I am for that reason harsher and more analytical towards Dawntrail’s presentation. I’m certain more parallels can be found in that critic’s videos that would give more insight into what didn’t work in the writing.

[Iskra]

I truly do not understand this whole idea people are coming up with that "this was Wuks story." No. Stop right there ✋️. Every single piece of marketing PR live letter fan fest ect ect said nothing about this being wuks journey.

This was always market since jump as OUR new adventure. So why In the name of bloody twelve am I the BG NPC?

There is a clear difference between 1.0-EW and DT. But at no point where we ever told during any part of the literal year from NA FF to DT launch that this was anything else besides OUR new chapter.

So if you feel lied to by yoshi P and the marketing team then good because you where and you are not a complete white knight simp for this sorry excuse of an msq.

Because had they told us even 1/100th of the truth of what this expansion was I bet no where near the same amount of people would have bought it.

This is the first time since 1.0's launch I genuinely feel lied to by the dev team and wish I could issue a full refund.

I cannot even bring myself to enjoy what content is there because I am primarily a story player and that is a complete mess.

Sorry I have been holding back since I beat the msq on day 3 of early access.

And honestly I wanted to explode with anger then. However I choose to sit on it and see how I felt.

It somehow has gotten even worse the more time I have sat with the story because now that the hype wore off and I can critically think about the story. There where soooooo many plot holes and horrible nonsense writing that its reminded me of season 8 of GOT levels of bad.

Sorry rant over

I feel this so much. It makes me feel like we're now on She-Hulk levels of story-telling after Endgame. I can't even bring myself to go grind the ex trials or level other jobs because I just feel so shocked and disappointed.

[Basteala]

I studied literature and film, and I know that particular critic’s channel. I’m a big fan. You could say I view all media I take in through the lens of a film critic, and perhaps I am for that reason harsher and more analytical towards Dawntrail’s presentation. I’m certain more parallels can be found in that critic’s videos that would give more insight into what didn’t work in the writing.

I wouldn't say harsher so much as "more articulate".

I feel this so much. It makes me feel like we're now on She-Hulk levels of story-telling after Endgame. I can't even bring myself to go grind the ex trials or level other jobs because I just feel so shocked and disappointed.

Real talk I've found a lot of the role quests and their characters (excluding caster) more interesting than Wuk Lamat's journey.

[BigBoom550]

Real talk I've found a lot of the role quests and their characters (excluding caster) more interesting than Wuk Lamat's journey.

Real talk I felt more emotional about the Cornservant chain because Cornservant, while... a sentient corn cob... formed a strange yet fruitful partnership with the WoL, and made people's lives better in such small, simple ways.

It was a nice, pleasant departure from... whatever the MSQ was.

[Glacierre]

I'm very morbidly curious to see if they take the negative feedback to heart and change gears next expansion because whoa.