Character disconnect and disappointing Player Agency in Dawntrail's MSQ [Spoilers]

[RabendaShin]

This post will contain spoilers for the Dawntrail MSQ.

I am about to finish my Dawntrail MSQ experience, and am reflecting upon the story told. There will be paraphrasing, so do correct me if I am absolutely incorrect in what I remember from the story.

An MMORPG needs to railroad the player character for plot reasons or mechanical ones, but in previous story experiences it all seemed relatively natural. There were always good reasons to do the things we needed to do, even if we didn't agree with them. We were also able to voice that disagreement, albeit in limited means.
FFXIV has never been a game about meaningful choices (we are mere actors in a grand play), yet somehow this is the first time playing where I feel an absolute disconnect with my character and the choices presented for her to take.

The time this disconnect hit me hardest was when Wuk Lamat asked me to refer to her as "lamaty'i", a term of endearment reserved for family. I had not particularly enjoyed much of my time glued to the third promise, so I opted to respond with the usually delightful "..." option expecting at least a somewhat snide comment. Instead, one of the Scions, a character I care for and trust, informs Wuk my character is "at a loss for words" for being asked this.

Once I reached the point where the capital is invaded by the futuristic army, I thought to myself: how did my character willingly get here? She caused a huge conflict on the other side of the world, just because G'raha told her to 'go have an adventure'. She was told not to mingle in local politics, but immediately gets rushed by a future ruler who claims her as a champion. Before that ruler gets to ascend the throne, we are even told by Gulool Ja Ja that had the claimaints been deemed unworthy, he would not forego his position.

Had my character opted not to support Wuk Lamat in her claim for the throne, what would have changed?

• The four claimants would have done their trials, and then Gulool Ja Ja would probably have decided none of them were fit to rule.
• Most of the people we helped in the trials all were more than able to fix their own problems, they didn't need us present to fix their fields, find them workers, or cook their local dish. Even if they needed actual help, I am certain Koana could have helped.
• There would have been harsh consequences for Bakool Ja Ja's antics.
• Zoraal Ja would have thrown a tantrum, but he wouldn't have had a cheat death device, nor would Yyasulani have been destroyed.

We would still have figured out the location and status of the golden city and Krile's parents, because we would have accompanied Krile on her own adventure to Tural.

The story beat that hurts me most though, is that poor Erenville would still have been able to travel home. Maybe he would have even spoken to his mother.
The final scenes we got seem to just exist for cheap tears.

[Ath192]

This post will contain spoilers for the Dawntrail MSQ.

The time this disconnect hit me hardest was when Wuk Lamat asked me to refer to her as "lamaty'i", a term of endearment reserved for family. I had not particularly enjoyed much of my time glued to the third promise, so I opted to respond with the usually delightful "..." option expecting at least a somewhat snide comment. Instead, one of the Scions, a character I care for and trust, informs Wuk my character is "at a loss for words" for being asked this.

100% I never hated my inability to control my character's feelings towards someone this badly. I never would have supported Wuk Lamat in her bid to become a leader of a nation. Never. But what's worse is my dialogue options didn't always have an option to protest in any way.

So I get the disconnect. I hated every moment of being the WoL that agreed to help Wuk Lamat against my will. And to have the only outlet taken from me, the snarky responses in dialogue options was even more annoying.

To me the worst offense was Wuk Lamat barging in the final fight, it absolutely ruined the moment. In fact, while I was upset with the MSQ, right at that moment, when Wuk Lamat came in from nowhere to attack Sphene, was when I decided I would leave a bad online review of this expansion. I never felt so much contempt for a character in this game before.

[mouse_marple]

To me the worst offense was Wuk Lamat barging in the final fight, it absolutely ruined the moment. In fact, while I was upset with the MSQ, right at that moment, when Wuk Lamat came in from nowhere to attack Sphene, was when I decided I would leave a bad online review of this expansion. I never felt so much contempt for a character in this game before.

Think of having to see this cutscene every time this trial comes up in roulette. They really need to change it.

[PaleYonder]

Think of having to see this cutscene every time this trial comes up in roulette. They really need to change it.

When this went down, my brain went to "No trial roulette from now on from a certain level upwards", and I don't even care how petty that is; I don't want to sit through that more than the one mandatory time. The whole thing was truly awful.

Also, agreed with everything on how railroaded this was. I basically checked out during the MSQ deciding that none of this happens, this is only gameplay/someone's weird dream, and my WOL would never go along with all this.

[Isala]

Think of having to see this cutscene every time this trial comes up in roulette. They really need to change it.

I'm honestly debating just leaving every time I get that trial, and taking the penalty every time. Is it an absolutely terrible thing to do for the people there? Yes. But I see no point in being a willing participant in my own torture.

[Carin-Eri]

To me the worst offense was Wuk Lamat barging in the final fight, it absolutely ruined the moment. In fact, while I was upset with the MSQ, right at that moment, when Wuk Lamat came in from nowhere to attack Sphene, was when I decided I would leave a bad online review of this expansion. I never felt so much contempt for a character in this game before.

That moment, above all others, annoyed me too and the dialogue didn't help either - it was pretty hypocritical for the dialogue to identify us as "the single greatest threat" only to contradict that by having Wuk Lamat appear and present us with a unnecessary 'here I come to save the day!' moment.

To be honest, it felt like they tried to what they did with Zenos in Ultima Thule (bursting through a barrier to come to our aid in our moment of need) which made sense in that context; we were literally alone and, like it or not, needed Zenos. But the writers missed the point in the Queen Eternal fight; the scenario with Zenos worked exactly because we were alone Vs an overwhelming foe, which simply wasn't the case VS Queen Eternal. Nothing in the scenario suggested we were losing or were overwhelmed and we certainly weren't alone thanks to the awesomeness of Azem's crystal, which means Wuk Lamat's appearance was unnecessary and, sadly, did take the wind out of the sails of the fight.
Personally, I would have preferred something more akin to the Endsinger 'Light the Way' moment, which would've kept Wuk Lamat relevant (and made the others less useless) without having her steal the spotlight.

And it's a pity it played out that way, because it is otherwise a great trial with absolutely epic music.

[Mondschnee]

That moment, above all others, annoyed me too and the dialogue didn't help either - it was pretty hypocritical for the dialogue to identify us as "the single greatest threat" only to contradict that by having Wuk Lamat appear and present us with a unnecessary 'here I come to save the day!' moment.

The writer(s) were trying to reference the moment where Alisaie said to Wuk Lamat: "Don't let her/him bear the burden alone."
Unfortunately, for me this didn't land at all.
I was enjoying the fight so much and then the intermission cutscene happened and I needed to keep telling myself that this is ok. But I was trying really hard not to cringe. And I *like* Wuk Lamat. But she was pushed onto us so much that even for me, she became really annoying at times.

[Carin-Eri]

The writer(s) were trying to reference the moment where Alisaie said to Wuk Lamat: "Don't let her/him bear the burden alone."
Unfortunately, for me this didn't land at all.
I was enjoying the fight so much and then the intermission cutscene happened and I needed to keep telling myself that this is ok. But I was trying really hard not to cringe. And I *like* Wuk Lamat. But she was pushed onto us so much that even for me, she became really annoying at times.

Agreed. Again, it does feel as if they tried to mirror Endwalker in this respect, since Alisaie had a couple of "you shouldn't have to fight alone" moments there.

But as you say, it missed the mark here. Firstly because we weren't alone, and secondly because her appearance implied that we needed her help - and we didn't.

Honestly - the nonsense of her appearing during the fight could be cut out and I don't think it would make much difference - she didn't say anything that she hadn't already said and she didn't change Sphene's mind, which means we could've left her out and had her talk to Sphene afterward, which she did anyway!

[SongOfTheWind]

That moment, above all others, annoyed me too and the dialogue didn't help either - it was pretty hypocritical for the dialogue to identify us as "the single greatest threat" only to contradict that by having Wuk Lamat appear and present us with a unnecessary 'here I come to save the day!' moment.

To be honest, it felt like they tried to what they did with Zenos in Ultima Thule (bursting through a barrier to come to our aid in our moment of need) which made sense in that context; we were literally alone and, like it or not, needed Zenos. But the writers missed the point in the Queen Eternal fight; the scenario with Zenos worked exactly because we were alone Vs an overwhelming foe, which simply wasn't the case VS Queen Eternal. Nothing in the scenario suggested we were losing or were overwhelmed and we certainly weren't alone thanks to the awesomeness of Azem's crystal, which means Wuk Lamat's appearance was unnecessary and, sadly, did take the wind out of the sails of the fight.
Personally, I would have preferred something more akin to the Endsinger 'Light the Way' moment, which would've kept Wuk Lamat relevant (and made the others less useless) without having her steal the spotlight.

And it's a pity it played out that way, because it is otherwise a great trial with absolutely epic music.

I wonder, have you done the ff16 collab event? That fight we had with Clive was the 1st time I got an odd feeling of being a 3rd wheel in a fight. As we are there to support him and make him do the rest of it, so anticlimactic I was kinda baffled. I guess that is where thye tried this new approach of us being just a spectator.

[mouse_marple]

This post will contain spoilers for the Dawntrail MSQ.
Had my character opted not to support Wuk Lamat in her claim for the throne, what would have changed?

• The four claimants would have done their trials, and then Gulool Ja Ja would probably have decided none of them were fit to rule.
• Most of the people we helped in the trials all were more than able to fix their own problems, they didn't need us present to fix their fields, find them workers, or cook their local dish. Even if they needed actual help, I am certain Koana could have helped.
• There would have been harsh consequences for Bakool Ja Ja's antics.
• Zoraal Ja would have thrown a tantrum, but he wouldn't have had a cheat death device, nor would Yyasulani have been destroyed.

.

You have articulated this very well. I don't like that our WOL was dragged into this despite there being several moments (even in 6.55) where we are offered a false choice to back out of this. I had not considered just how catastrophic our involvement with Wuk Lamat's bid for the throne was for Tural (and specifically Erenville) until you framed it this way. I agree that this would have been so much better if it was an adventure with Krile to find the lost city.