FFXIV Healer Strike and the 'How would you fix it?' line

[Qyoon]

The game launched with higher relative popularity among its healers than we see now; most of the drop-off is quite recent. So how is low popularity the "default"?


No, but it's also one of the areas that'd take the least work to see likely substantial improvement.


The problem is that this doesn't account at all for the number of players who, say, already swapped off healers and then quit outright because their favorite role being gutted increasingly proved itself not to be temporary.

Yes, whichever role has the least popularity inherently self-corrects its participation somewhat, since it then offers instant queues (even if rarely Adventurer-in-Need bonuses, the role selection for which favors tank even when tanks remains a 2 to 5-minute queue and healers instant), but that does nothing for whether a given existing player will continue to have their reason to play -- that thing that 'hits the spot' for them enough to warrant continue playing XIV over other games, be that between patches or at all.

Focusing solely on queue ratios/times (which, even then, generally shows that things are worse than they used to be) while ignoring dwindling between-patch or even on-patch player numbers (even more obvious of warning signs) in not a good idea.

Not saying you are lying, i personally don't know those numbers.
I don't know how low it has to be for SE to decide to do something about it.

To me i don't know if revamping the healers would be as easy as you say, but in my opinion the game definitly needs it.

I don't see massive complains about the healers on the japanese side of the forum, wich is the most likely for the devs to read.
I never had any issue to find healers to do dungeons, while tanks are. (talking about europe on Chaos DC, dunno about the rest.)

The game has a lot of incentives for people to play tanks, while those are also clearly overpowered.
I don't see any of those about the healers, they also rework and balance other jobs a lot.
And again, they are not reworking the healers at all.

[MetaBoi]

Finally digested the other three, superb job with them all.

For Scholar, the only thing I find some issue is the button limit. It is reaching the upper limit of what a controller player can reasonably place on the hotbars. The strength of the Scholar is that they can mix and match their mitigations to the exact scenario at hand, so I don't know how to cut buttons there. The other thing is it is a bit wordy but that much is given as you're writing for every possible situation. Secondly, I believe Scholar is strong enough as it is, making them stronger doesn't sit well with me... For the Strategies, how do you plan to show them? Through a gauge or having it as a buff on Scholar itself? The fairy somewhat gives away so maybe having 3 forms (Lily/Eos/Selene) could also work

For Astrologian, I am mixed on the card system. I like that it is more unique, but I don't like that it is random. If this type of system is to be implemented, high potency attacks on other jobs needs to change. Maybe a way to "save" a card would be good. I would change redraw so that it switches the positions of the front and back slots so that you can save a card you want like Bole for a repeated TB or get rid of Arrow on the back first as you might have Spire with Empower planned for 20 seconds later becuase your summoner is getting back to their Bahamut again.

Now for Sage, my main. The job I used to prog last tier. And it is a really interesting design. But not a design I wish to see on a healer. I like the idea of consuming MP to augment your most important ability, but I think having that sort of MP management would be better for a non-caster job. If multiple non-caster jobs used MP like that MP regeneration buffs can be given to more supportive jobs. Anyways, back to the Sage. This version is even better at keeping things under control at the expense of having lesser "I need big healing, NOW". I'm not a huge fan of the Zoe you proposed. Because how current Zoe interacts with Pneuma and your shields it is a really great panic button or a way to replenish the party's HP/Shields quickly in repeated big hits. Second Opinion + Pepsis handles the healing part but shielding suffers greatly from it. And with Neuralgia and Myasthenia added players wouldn't need to worry about double weaving that much. I think making Zoe stay as it is (maybe even add a guaranteed Crit on top of it to match recitation) and make Krasis' functionality change to Zoe's would be a nice change or making Soma consume all Zoe charges to apply the Zoe shields with it as well would be nice too if you want to keep it as an augment. And finally for the gauge. Because of how you put the other augments Toxicon also looks like it augments your Kardia like others. Maybe putting the Toxicon stakcs below the Addersting could work?

Again, superb ideas. The parts are I'm criticizing are more or less nitpicking compared to everything that I liked about it.

[ForsakenRoe]

Finally digested the other three, superb job with them all.

For Scholar, the only thing I find some issue is the button limit. It is reaching the upper limit of what a controller player can reasonably place on the hotbars. The strength of the Scholar is that they can mix and match their mitigations to the exact scenario at hand, so I don't know how to cut buttons there. The other thing is it is a bit wordy but that much is given as you're writing for every possible situation. Secondly, I believe Scholar is strong enough as it is, making them stronger doesn't sit well with me... For the Strategies, how do you plan to show them? Through a gauge or having it as a buff on Scholar itself? The fairy somewhat gives away so maybe having 3 forms (Lily/Eos/Selene) could also work

For Astrologian, I am mixed on the card system. I like that it is more unique, but I don't like that it is random. If this type of system is to be implemented, high potency attacks on other jobs needs to change. Maybe a way to "save" a card would be good. I would change redraw so that it switches the positions of the front and back slots so that you can save a card you want like Bole for a repeated TB or get rid of Arrow on the back first as you might have Spire with Empower planned for 20 seconds later becuase your summoner is getting back to their Bahamut again.

Now for Sage, my main. The job I used to prog last tier. And it is a really interesting design. But not a design I wish to see on a healer. I like the idea of consuming MP to augment your most important ability, but I think having that sort of MP management would be better for a non-caster job. If multiple non-caster jobs used MP like that MP regeneration buffs can be given to more supportive jobs. Anyways, back to the Sage. This version is even better at keeping things under control at the expense of having lesser "I need big healing, NOW". I'm not a huge fan of the Zoe you proposed. Because how current Zoe interacts with Pneuma and your shields it is a really great panic button or a way to replenish the party's HP/Shields quickly in repeated big hits. Second Opinion + Pepsis handles the healing part but shielding suffers greatly from it. And with Neuralgia and Myasthenia added players wouldn't need to worry about double weaving that much. I think making Zoe stay as it is (maybe even add a guaranteed Crit on top of it to match recitation) and make Krasis' functionality change to Zoe's would be a nice change or making Soma consume all Zoe charges to apply the Zoe shields with it as well would be nice too if you want to keep it as an augment. And finally for the gauge. Because of how you put the other augments Toxicon also looks like it augments your Kardia like others. Maybe putting the Toxicon stakcs below the Addersting could work?

Again, superb ideas. The parts are I'm criticizing are more or less nitpicking compared to everything that I liked about it.

Thank you for reading, glad you enjoyed (again)

Scholar:

The ideas posted would, by my count, increase the button count of the job by just one keybind. Thanks to Miasma effectively co-opting the usecase of Ruin2 (high on-cast potency allows it to be used for movement) and Physick upgrading into Adloquium instead of being seperate actions, that's 2 hotbar spaces saved, compared to the 3 that would be added (Strategy: Defensive, Strategy: Emergency, Shadowflare). If another hotbar slot is required to make it a flat +-0 spaces, perhaps Summon Faerie could be made an automatic thing as a Level 1 trait, similar to how Gatherer jobs have Auto-Sneak (after all, why would you want to have the Faerie not-summoned as a SCH?).

If by 'wordy' you mean 'how long each tooltip is because of all the Strategy interactions', yeh it's unfortunate. But, none of my tooltips are as long as SE's managed with Starry Sky Muse for PCT, and so as long as I don't get that bad, I think I'm doing something right (that tooltip is an abomination). SCH is strong yes, and this would make it even stronger on healing by a hefty amount (assuming a very skilled player, taking advantage of Strategies to the fullest). But A: that's partially the point, and B: I didn't try to balance the healing potencies of the job versus the others (mostly just taking the current design's potencies for things and working off of that), so I would expect that there is some crazy HPS differences between the four of them. For example, SCH having access to Tabula Rasa/Seraphism's effect on a 2min CD (as I intended it to be at some point), probably a bit OP so I left it at 3min. The only actions in the game with a CD longer than 3min are the Invulns, literal 'ignore death' buttons, and while Tabula Rasa is strong, I don't think it's 'literally cannot die' strong per se

For Strategies, I'd show them on the Gauge in some manner. For example, a Codex on the right end (where there is already a sharp corner) of the Fey Gauge that changes colour/has some indicator showing whether you're in Defensive, Offensive or Emergency. For example:

Paint doesn't have good tools for this kinda thing (I can't even rotate things by a non90 degree amount), but here is a quick and dirty 5min example. The symbol on the Codex would be both shape and colour-coded to each Strategy. For example:
A Shield for Defensive (to indicate the additional protective capabilities)
A Sword, or the depicted Thunderbolt for Offensive ('... and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt' - Sun Tzu, The Art of War)
A green Cross for Emergency (to indicate the increased healing it provides)

I'm sure SE could do a better job at making it look good

Lily (the faerie) having two forms, Eos and Selene, was talked about in the lore/job quests (until SE removed the line because they had reduced Eos/Selene to 'recolour' status), so there being 2 forms instead of 3 is a nod to that. Seraph is a seperate thing and I don't really like it being included, but it's been in the kit for 5 years now so rather than remove it, I'd prefer to find a way to work around it (my method for that being, unlockable Seraph Glamours such as Feo Ul, Statice and her gun, etc)

AST:

Full honesty, AST is the design of the four that I'm least confident in. I mainly wanted to see if I could come up with a way to solve the problem SE faced at the end of SB (AOE Balance is too strong compared to other options) with a different trajectory. Ideally, all 6 of the cards, while having different effects, have roughly equal damage contribution (When played on their 'ideal role'). But, this requires many factors to have assumed values too, and adapting to unknowns would be part of the skill cap of the job. For example, if a Tank were to join the PF for the final fight of the tier, who had somehow won a ton of loot in all the other fights, their extra HP from that gear might push Bole ahead of the other cards. Similarly, if the co-Healer were geared to the teeth, then Ewer would take priority. The over-saturation of 'big hit in 2min window' is annoying, but ultimately, not a massive issue I think, as the ideal burst for the AST would probably see them throwing out 2 Major Arcana in that 2min window anyway, where those big hits are (and the other 2 Major Arcana at the 1min mark for mini-bursts like Riddle of Fire/Trick Attack).

The 're-order cards in hand' button would probably be a good idea to include, and luckily, this design actually has one button less than the current AST, so there's space to add it without blowing anyone's hotbar up. Not sure what it'd be called though. Maybe we could bring back Shuffle and have it be functionally distinct from Redraw. 'Spread' already exists as the passive effect of the gauge being able to hold a second of each card, so that's probably out. Unless we called it like... 'Spread Swap' or something?

Sage:

The first desire I had for SGE, that everything else stemmed from, was 'I think it'd be cool if SGE were able to heal allies by dealing damage, like Disc Priest in WOW. But, Disc Priest has a big barrier to entry, where if you mess up your 'ramp', your setup phase, it doesn't have great ways to recover and get back into the flow. So, the challenge to myself is, 'can I make that style of gameplay for SGE while still making it super-easy to recover if you misplay?'' It might be obvious (or not, I'm not sure) but, if I could get one, and only one, of these designs into the game, I'd very likely choose this SGE, just because of how 'different' a healing style it'd provide. Though the DMC-esque style-switching SCH is a pretty tough contender too

The potency of Zoe-Pneuma (900 total) is the baseline healing potency of the new Soma action. I figured that'd cover the lost healing output from losing the current Zoe effect. Being an OGCD means that Soma would also be pretty reactive for 'panic button' situations (compared to needing to doubleweave Swiftcast/Zoe into Pneuma currently). Personally I find that Zoe being used on Eukrasian Prognosis iis much more of a 'planned' thing, and ideally with this, you'd be 'planning' in the form of applying Kardia-based shielding (with the new Zoe). I see what you mean about the lost barrier potency (base E.Prog being 360p, Zoe-boosted being 540p), but it might just be a case of us seeing it differently because neither of us can playtest it to see if that missing 180p of barrier actually affects things. Philosophia also would be a pretty good 'panic button' I think, as it'd instantly give you 4 stacks of everything, including Toxikon (so you could immediately start blasting out the Kardia procs to set up).

Hmm, though this does get me thinking: What if E.Prognosis and E.Diagnosis were able to consume stacks to apply those Kardia Augment effects? If they had bonus effects that said things like 'Consumes a stack of Zoe, if available, to increase Barrier % conversion rate by X' and 'Consumes a stack of Soteria, if available, to increase Healing Potency by Y', then the 'panic button' could be E.Prognosis itself? Since you can get one weave in between each E.Prognosis cast (between the E.Prognosis and the next Eukrasia cast), you'd be able to get a Zoe in there. Then, with the barrier being (presumably) so much stronger, that'd buy time to skip shielding the second hit to use the Phlegmatic proc you'd be getting, recouping some of the damage, and even helping to heal/barrier somewhat. For example:

Your augments are Soteria, Zoe, Toxikon, Krasis, Pankardia, in that order on the gauge.
Say you start at 4 of every Augment. You hit the boss with whatever attack, let's say a Dosis, it hits you and breaks the shields that were applied. You're now at 3/3/4/3/3.
You weave Pepsis to heal, then E.Prognosis, taking you to 2/2/4/3/3. The boss hits you, breaks the shield, and gives you a Phlegmatic charge.
You spend Phlegmatic, taking you to 1/1/4/3/2. This also heals the party, and sets up a barrier to protect you again. Boss hits you, breaking the shield.
You press Soteria and Zoe as a doubleweave after the Phlegma from last time. You're now back up at 4/4/4/3/2. You then press E.Prog, boss hits you.
You press Pepsis after the hit, and are at 3/3/4/3/2. You then spend Phlegmatic again. You're now at 2/2/4/3/1.

This all repeats for as long as is required, until the boss stops hitting you (or you run out of MP). In this example, you'd have spent a total of 5000MP on all of this, which sounds like a lot, but that's because we're used to spending 400MP each time we want to hit the boss with Dosis.

We'd also be able to use Dosis as a metric for how much of a boost that Soteria and Zoe would provide to E.Prognosis. If Dosis is 310p in this design, and Soteria boosts Kardia's healing by '50% of the damage dealt by the attack', that's 155p. For Zoe, it's '25% of the healing dealt'. Presumably we'd be using Soteria to boost the Shield potency, so we'd use the 200p of Kardia healing, plus that 155p from Soteria, and take 25% of that, which is 88.75 (let's call it 90p with rounding). So, we can use that 155p and 90p boost to guide how much of a boost that E.Prognosis should receive. Bearing in mind that any boost to the base healing of E.Prog also increases the Barrier effect it provides already, I'd put forth the quick maths of 'Soteria boosts the base heal by 100p (and therefore even alone it'd increase the barrier by 120p)' and 'Zoe boosts the barrier conversion percentage from 120% to 140%', (doesn't sound like much but it'd be an increase of 60p). I think these would both be fair, as together, both boosts would be multiplicative and create a total boost that takes the barrier strength from 360p, all the way up to 560p, 20p more than the current Zoe effect grants (but this version would let you make use of those boosts, 4 times in a row, if you wanted)

The mention of Neuralgia and Myasthenia reminds me of a recent funny thing. I checked the 'ideal rotation' a couple of times recently (to make sure that 'press E.Prog for barriers, then recoup damage using E.Phlegma (thereby enabling skipping pressing E.Dosis at all for the DOT)') was not accidentally 'optimal'. What I found was that (assuming 3 Toxikon windows per 2min), not only was the intended optimal rotation optimal, the goofy 'press 5 Barriers in 2min, recoup with a total of 8 E.Phlegmas' rotation was only 600p per 2min behind! And, 'Maintain DOT via E.Dosis as normal, refund the 5 Barrier casts using regular Phlegma' was also 600p per 2min behind the optimal rotation. So that was cool to see. But for N&M specifically, because of both using them via their charges, and within the Toxikon window, they actually surpass Dosis as the 'most casted action per 2min loop'. The 'filler' would be dethroned

The gauge example doesn't show it (it's a static image) but I'd imagine that the goop in each of the beakers/vials would be bubbling and animated to some extent. So, if Toxikon were below the gauge, the goop would fall out! Jokes aside, I get where you're coming from, but at the same time, I think it does make a bit of sense to be at the top too, because the way you're consuming the Toxikon charges is the same way as the other four (by attacking the enemy). Maybe the container would need to be a different shape, or size, to indicate that it is a bit different from the other four?

Also, if the gameplay of this SGE is to 'mix' these effects to make something greater than the sum of their parts, to assist you in healing the party... have I accidentally made Chemist?

[klu]

Hey, look. Still refusing to use the megathread already in use because crapping up the forums (and arguing back/making asinine excuses with randos) is a better idea...?

Guys. Please. Stop making the forums and actively worse place.

Or if you're going to deliberately be awful posters, at least be consistent. Why should you confine yourself to the megathread OR this one?

Each of you should make your own #healerstrike thread. That way you can all see how worthwhile the discussion is, when its diluted.

Please. Stop. Crapping. Up. These. Forums.

[Supersnow845]

Hey, look. Still refusing to use the megathread already in use because crapping up the forums (and arguing back/making asinine excuses with randos) is a better idea...?

Guys. Please. Stop making the forums and actively worse place.

Or if you're going to deliberately be awful posters, at least be consistent. Why should you confine yourself to the megathread OR this one?

Each of you should make your own #healerstrike thread. That way you can all see how worthwhile the discussion is, when its diluted.

Please. Stop. Crapping. Up. These. Forums.

I see three housing threads on the front page

Go get em tiger

[klu]

I see three housing threads on the front page

Go get em tiger

SIR.

Sir, you're crapping up the forums. Please cease.

[klu]

I see three housing threads on the front page

Go get em tiger

Actually hold on. Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

You're arguing with me, because other posters are actively being bad posters, and you... also want to be a bad poster?

That's something I never, ever grok about the ancient response of "there are other multiple thread topics too!" being foisted my way lazily.

You are acknowledging that you know it's bad, and that it fundamentally makes forum browsing a worse experience (which is why so many sites have rules against it) but, because Timmy stole a cookie and didn't get his hand smacked you want to... be bad too?

That's your counter?

[kyyninen_kirahvi]

I just want healers to be fun. ForsakenRoe has really good ideas. I hope those are given to the devs.

SIR.

Sir, you're crapping up the forums. Please cease.

I kindly recommend logging off, taking a step back and letting go. (Order of the steps may be changed.)
You have not contributed to the thread. You have somewhat succeeded in derailing this thread. Please stop if you have nothing to say!

[Supersnow845]

Actually hold on. Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

You're arguing with me, because other posters are actively being bad posters, and you... also want to be a bad poster?

That's something I never, ever grok about the ancient response of "there are other multiple thread topics too!" being foisted my way lazily.

You are acknowledging that you know it's bad, and that it fundamentally makes forum browsing a worse experience (which is why so many sites have rules against it) but, because Timmy stole a cookie and didn't get his hand smacked you want to... be bad too?

That's your counter?

No I’m not admitting it’s bad I’m saying I have no problem with it……..because I just don’t open topics I’m not interested in

I’m pointing out your pointless hypocrisy that the healer forums are the only ones you actually police despite your “problems” (that nobody else has) being broadly applicable to almost every subforum

I don’t care that people want to open more threads, I prefer it to stale megathreads, if you have such a problem with this design then rant to everyone equally, not just the healer forums

[klu]

No I’m not admitting it’s bad I’m saying I have no problem with it……..because I just don’t open topics I’m not interested in

I’m pointing out your pointless hypocrisy that the healer forums are the only ones you actually police despite your “problems” (that nobody else has) being broadly applicable to almost every subforum

I don’t care that people want to open more threads, I prefer it to stale megathreads, if you have such a problem with this design then rant to everyone equally, not just the healer forums

So instead of being better, you're down for wallowing in mud. You claim my statements are pointless, but you're fine with endless circular discussions with zero resolution, and you are a prominent of enshittification, because you don't care.

Got it.