Game Design Concepts that the Devs and Playerbase has Forgotten

[Striker44]

Because I recognize you from other threads, where all you do is antagonize other people and ignore any form of criticism, no matter how well-structured it is, you tend strawman everything with a very reductvist attittude. This is not a diss at you, by the way, but rather a gentle nudge that you can and should take other people's opinions into account without dismissing them because they don't line up with yours. I agree that DW has a fair few good points (Music, for the most part is really good, and battle content design has gotten better), but your attitude has been genuinely reductive and harmful for discussion.

I'll give you the same genuine challenge I gave Shurrikhan (who apparently can't back up his words?) - please prove what you just said. Show me where I've used a strawman fallacy. Interesting that you tacitly acknowledged that because of your (false?) impression from other threads, you did put words in my mouth here.

I think something that might help with your perspective on me is my intentions, though. I'm not generally expecting to change people's minds here. I'm pretty confident I know the kind of echo chamber that's been set up and the type of people that push it. I've also seen what happens to people who post positive things meekly. I know the biggest thing that certain kinds of people aren't used to is having someone they're pushing around actually push back, so I do.

And no, a couple of people going into a deluge of negative posts to say a couple positive things is not equivalent to a deluge of people trying to take over and wreck any rare positive thread that dares crop up. Little squeaks in a giant sea of negativity are not equivalent to a chorus invading a positive thread to drown it out. The group that has the immense numerical advantage bears the brunt of responsibility there. If your post is an attempt at being genuine, please, please take some time to learn what the concept of a metaphorical "echo chamber" refers to. Asking for one or two positive threads to stay positive in a sea of dozens of negative threads is "literally" the opposite of an echo chamber.

But I'll leave my challenge to you again - please show me where I have set up a strawman fallacy.

[SwadTheFrog]

I'll give you the same genuine challenge I gave Shurrikhan (who apparently can't back up his words?) - please prove what you just said. Show me where I've used a strawman fallacy. Interesting that you tacitly acknowledged that because of your (false?) impression from other threads, you did put words in my mouth here.

I think something that might help with your perspective on me is my intentions, though. I'm not generally expecting to change people's minds here. I'm pretty confident I know the kind of echo chamber that's been set up and the type of people that push it. I've also seen what happens to people who post positive things meekly. I know the biggest thing that certain kinds of people aren't used to is having someone they're pushing around actually push back, so I do.

And no, a couple of people going into a deluge of negative posts to say a couple positive things is not equivalent to a deluge of people trying to take over and wreck any rare positive thread that dares crop up. Little squeaks in a giant sea of negativity are not equivalent to a chorus invading a positive thread to drown it out. The group that has the immense numerical advantage bears the brunt of responsibility there. If your post is an attempt at being genuine, please, please take some time to learn what the concept of a metaphorical "echo chamber" refers to. Asking for one or two positive threads to stay positive in a sea of dozens of negative threads is "literally" the opposite of an echo chamber.

But I'll leave my challenge to you again - please show me where I have set up a strawman fallacy.

I have no need or desire to go hunting on your post history. Your attitude is very upsetting and dismissive, and it saddens me that a far more friendly and reasonable approach doesn't get you to look at what you're saying and realize that "Hey, maybe the people I disagree with aren't all in a magical echo chamber". Sadly, you clearly just want to stay in your own corner and lash out at any and all ideas or opinons that conflict with yours. I hope you eventuallly grow as a person, but I cannot hold a dialogue with you when you are so adamant about how everyone is wrong.

You said it yourself, you're not here to change minds or have a discussion. You're here to agressively state a point you will not budge on. There's no point in having a conversation with you until that changes.

[Aword3213]

I finally got the time to use my pc. I'll try to repond directly to your point since it's the first time I see you refute with earnestness.

Because see, what just happened here is you took someone who posts positive things about the game, lied about what they do, and then used it to attack them (all to the applause of your fellows as the "likes" suggest). That's exactly what I'm takling about.

You need to subject yourself to the same standard as you did to others.

Here, you rant by making generalization in a disrepectful way

watch the echo chamber descend on you, attack you, belittle you, and high-five each other while they do it.

Then you threw a fit when people generalized the opposite side to serve as counterpoint

They were not lying though. Here are the examples showing the hypocrisy in your narrative.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6496141

Point proven! Genuine challenge - please show me where I have posted fallacies, misinformation, etc..
Also, I wasn't even talking about me, specifically, though you could go to the infamous "strike" thread where I dared to point out that I've found I need to heal more often in DT (which multiple other posters have said as well) only to have the first response just insinuate "you must be bad at healing". That's a glowing example of what I mean.

Or just check out any of the positive threads on here. Watch how quickly the negative group descends on it. Here's a great example:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...hread-SPOILERS

Within 1 minute of posting, before the person could even explain what they liked, you had two passive-aggressive attacks getting several dozen high-fives, followed by multiple others down the line.

It's very common to see threads get derailed by irrelevant responses. A lot of times people just ignore the rules set by the opening posts and continue on their marry way to post whatever. Just read some posts in the #healerstrike thread, which you fervently attached to, you'll see it soon got derailed in the same manner as the link you provided.
Here

It just happens. It's natural. Welcome to the internet. Both sides are guilty of this. It's so commonly seen that I don't think it's whataboutism. However, you seemed to be emotional about it. It's fine if you want to point that out, but it would be very disingenuous of you when you're clearly one-sided.

Look at the sheer number of negative threads about virtually anything and compare to the number of positive ones, then watch how even in those minute few positive threads, the negative posters still come in and flood it.

I think you should step away from the forum for some time. If this forum upsets you so much, might I suggest you to frequent a more positive medium such as Reddit?

Why deny what this place is? Cut out the whataboutism (Reddit) and let's just acknowledge reality.

The reality is that many people have engaged with you in good faith in the past. However, you exhibit a clear pattern that you tend to disregard on-point counter argument, then return pages later with the same argument people refuted pages ago, time and time again. It's a very disrespectful behavior. You should notice by now you've been called out by multiple different accounts thanks to your recent contribution to #healerstrike thread.

I think something that might help with your perspective on me is my intentions, though. I'm not generally expecting to change people's minds here. I'm pretty confident I know the kind of echo chamber that's been set up and the type of people that push it. I've also seen what happens to people who post positive things meekly. I know the biggest thing that certain kinds of people aren't used to is having someone they're pushing around actually push back, so I do..

Has it ever occured to you that the biggest echo chamber in the game is the Silent Majority you keep conjuring up in your posts?

You see, if the Silent Majority disagrees with whatever people on the forums are complaining about, and they are 100% happy about the state of the game as you so frequently point out, that means the Silent Majority has only one mind. It fits the definition of Echo Chamber. One can also consider them a Hivemind.

And no, a couple of people going into a deluge of negative posts to say a couple positive things is not equivalent to a deluge of people trying to take over and wreck any rare positive thread that dares crop up. Little squeaks in a giant sea of negativity are not equivalent to a chorus invading a positive thread to drown it out. The group that has the immense numerical advantage bears the brunt of responsibility there. If your post is an attempt at being genuine, please, please take some time to learn what the concept of a metaphorical "echo chamber" refers to. Asking for one or two positive threads to stay positive in a sea of dozens of negative threads is "literally" the opposite of an echo chamber.

Positive threads getting drawned fast is hardly the the fault of negativity. It's just very difficult to generate discussion. If you visit twitter or reddit, you'll see the comment section in positvie topics are very boring to read.

[SwadTheFrog]

Snip

Thank you for summing it up far better than I could have.

[Striker44]

You need to subject yourself to the same standard as you did to others.

I do.

Here, you rant by making generalization in a disrepectful way

If the truth is disrespectful, what does that really suggest? (For the record, my specific comment you then quoted was primarily directed at when I pointed out I've needed to heal more in DT content - as have many others - only to have the very first response be someone insinuating that somehow means I must be bad at healing and racking up likes for saying it. Compare it to the thread where someone complained about the graphics change, and when one of the people who likes the new graphics responded by saying they found "joy" in the other person's frustration, their comment wasn't "liked" and was immediately called out by several other people who likewise enjoy the new changes telling them they were out of line.)

Then you threw a fit when people generalized the opposite side to serve as counterpoint

They were not lying though. Here are the examples showing the hypocrisy in your narrative.

I'm seeing no source on the first (probably because it didn't happen), and I'm genuinely confused where this is any "hypocrisy" in what you subsequently quoted as support.

I think you should step away from the forum for some time. If this forum upsets you so much, might I suggest you to frequent a more positive medium such as Reddit?

I appreciate your "concern". I mainly swing by here when waiting in a queue for something in-game or just having a few minutes to pass the time. I certainly wouldn't want to think you were trying to encourage one of the few people willing to say how they enjoy the game to keep quiet.

The reality is that many people have engaged with you in good faith in the past.

I would challenge the idea of "many." What I see "many" people do around here is conflate their personal, subjective opinions with objective facts, and then belittle anyone who dares to "disagree" (aka simply have a different opinion). Of the times a good faith conversation actually occurs, I always engage just as respectfully. Basically, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt to start, but then respond in kind. If someone wants to get snippy with me, I have no particular reason to maintain the "high ground" and am happy to respond in kind.

Has it ever occured to you that the biggest echo chamber in the game is the Silent Majority you keep conjuring up in your posts?

What? (Again, for the record, what I always point out is that we don't know what the silent majority believes. That's usually my main point, that only the dev team has that information.)

Positive threads getting drawned fast is hardly the the fault of negativity.

Umm, yes, it is. When someone specifically says "there's so many negative posts around here, let's just have at least this one place where people can post about things they enjoy", there is zero reason for that thread to ever go negative. At best, if it's just not as "interesting" as negative threads, it should simply fade into obscurity. Getting drowned out by people who can't stand seeing even that one positive post is absolutely the fault of negativity.

So, where this goes. This is the first thread where I specifically challenged two people to directly respond to a claim they made. After a few days, one of them is yet to be seen, and the other refused (aka couldn't). If you're wondering why I don't actively follow every single post I make to see who responds, well, there's part of the reason why (and we can add another post being that I value my mental health, perhaps ?).

For what it's worth, though, most of the comments I make have no reason to follow up on. Practically everything I post is my personal opinion, and I openly describe it as such. There's simply nothing to be "challenged" to begin with. Making things up to have a reason to challenge someone just isn't worth the time to bother with.

[Striker44]

I have no need or desire to go hunting on your post history.

So, you're approach is to accuse someone of something, and then just turn and hide when you get called out? Good to know. If you made a specific accusation like you did (straw man fallacy), you shouldn't need to "go hunting" through someone's post history, there should be something specific you remember that you can point to. Thank you for the tacit acknowledgment that you made a false accusation against me which you couldn't support.