Game Design Concepts that the Devs and Playerbase has Forgotten

[ViaDesperare]

Thinking in terms of game design, I've been seeing a lot of talk about things that the FFXIV Devs seems to have forgotten, or just dropped, and the playerbase growing so used to it that they're now pushing for that direction for this game's design.

1. Just Let Them Play - Link

Shown here by Masahiro Sakurai's, FFXIV seems to focus too much on story and has forgotten that it is a game. Dawntrail, and most of FFXIV TBH, takes too long to get interesting and it doesn't give players something strong to pull them to continue playing. Dawntrail's design is mainly walk and talk with little to no actual combat gameplay until you get a dungeon/trial due to the lack of solo instances or overworld fights, and even then they're insanely easy. The Devs should've focused more on making sure the player wanted to play more earlier on, such as seeing new mechanics or gameplay that was added newly to this expansion.

2. Let Them Skip - Link

The Devs being so focused on story, they end up not letting people skip the story anymore. The playerbase is the same in that skipping is a sin, and is punishable by death, metaphorically but on twitter it's literally. Some scenes are not people's first time, such as the iconic "SphEeEeEn" scene, and should be skippable or not there in the first place. There are even dialogues that you can't press through as well, and it just adds to the inconvenience of the player. You can skip most cutscenes, but you can't skip the MSQ which is pretty much a huge cutscene with barely any combat.

3. Echo Chambers - Link

FFXIV is terrible for this, especially coming from the playerbase. Due to being in the community, or social media sites like Twitter, the Devs and players have come to only hear things from like-minded individuals. I think they've taken the toxic positivity a bit too far and that's why we have Dawntrail with the lackluster gameplay in the MSQ, with class designs too, and many other things that I probably don't know about but some else does. You can't skip the MSQ, the MSQ is what makes the game, Healers shouldn't be hard, people should play Savage for harder content, etc etc. I think it's important to look at more into player feedback and not just outright ignoring them, like the healers with their strike. It feels like no matter what negative feedback to give you YoshiP and friends, he outright ignores them and gives you a dumb response back like go play Savage, which people did and are still mad. This is further enforced by the playerbase, because they'll cheer him on without ever critically thinking about why and only care that there is no negativity and they're happy with their Cult.

If anyone has more examples, pleased do share. I think it's important to talk and be reminded about good game design to better our games.

[Shialan]

I love how you are writing about echo chambers and toxic positivity. This forum is a MASSIVE echo chamber, but with just toxicity.

[SwadTheFrog]

I love how you are writing about echo chambers and toxic positivity. This forum is a MASSIVE echo chamber, but with just toxicity.

Someone whose thesis was literally based on the proliferation of Echo Chambers in online spaces here. There's actual discussion in this forum, and no attempt to silence others forcibly. There's also constant exchange of information, and I have witnessed SEVERAL people changing their minds on either spectrum. The FF14 Subreddit could be considered an Echo Chamber instead, as there is pretty severe content moderation, reinforced by the up/downvote system tossing subjects that aren't approved by perceived majority down into not being seen. While a lot of the discussion on the forum right now is indeed very negative, this is because DT has had a very mixed reception. This is then further amplified by other ways of communication (such as the aforementioned Subreddit, and I believe Twitter to a...slightly lesser extent?) shunning less positive conversation in regards to the game - which means that you see a greater influx of negativity here due to it being the next available public space for discussion. This, however, still does not make it into an Echo Chamber, because I am yet to see a single thread where everyone is blindly agreeing with one another.

In short, just because an opinion is not one that pleases you, it does not mean that it magically makes the area of discussion into an Echo Chamber. Instead, your way of seeing it is what enables the proliferation of these same exact things. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Striker44]

There's actual discussion in this forum, and no attempt to silence others forcibly.

Oh, that's funny. Seriously, try saying something positive on here, or daring to raise a counterpoint in any of the avalanche of negative threads, and watch the echo chamber descend on you, attack you, belittle you, and high-five each other while they do it. This place is absolutely a negative echo chamber, and has been for long before DT. Wow.

[SwadTheFrog]

Oh, that's funny. Seriously, try saying something positive on here, or daring to raise a counterpoint in any of the avalanche of negative threads, and watch the echo chamber descend on you, attack you, belittle you, and high-five each other while they do it. This place is absolutely a negative echo chamber, and has been for long before DT. Wow.

People disagreeing with you in droves does not equate Echo Chamber. No one is attempting to silence you, and dialogue is still possible. Sites like Reddit, in the meanwhile are quite literally DESIGNED to be Echo Chambers via the very specific subreddits and the updove/downvote system. Literally grow up and learn how to have a dialogue with people.

[Enkidoh]

Someone seems to have forgotten though that the Final Fantasy series is famed for story more than gameplay (and that this is a Final Fantasy game first and foremost.).

[HyperiusUltima]

Someone seems to have forgotten though that the Final Fantasy series is famed for story more than gameplay (and that this is a Final Fantasy game first and foremost.).

Final Fantasy in particular has gone a few different ways, but it has managed to keep its genre interesting. FF1-6 are RPG Classics, but out of that bunch you have one that gameplay-wise is just boring as sin: FF2. I think we're in that state where they've produced an uninteresting gameplay product, but have tried and failed to craft a decent story to go with it. DT feels more like watching a movie with how things go, and this is only me giving an opinion here.

Back to topic, the Job System of FF5 actually shook up gameplay at the cost of its story(which is VERY comical if you choose to look up the tropes it uses), while FF6 has a good balance of both along with a unique cast of characters. 7, 8, 9, 10 in particular tried different gameplay systems: Limit Breaks, GFs, AP System, and even literal Turn-based combat compared to ATB in that order. While I haven't played XI, I can say that over the years we've been seeing a move from the classic RPG system to more action, which 12-16 do.

What I see for Dawntrail is a lack of both engaging gameplay AND a story that is lackluster in its own genre of MMO. This is why we're throwing a lot of negative feedback and backlash at Square Enix on their official forums and social media platforms. I know for a fact they can make quality content, as shown in 91 Dungeon - but focusing on one thing at a time is not good if everything else suffers, even if it's slow.

[ty_taurus]

What I see for Dawntrail is a lack of both engaging gameplay AND a story that is lackluster in its own genre of MMO. This is why we're throwing a lot of negative feedback and backlash at Square Enix on their official forums and social media platforms. I know for a fact they can make quality content, as shown in 91 Dungeon - but focusing on one thing at a time is not good if everything else suffers, even if it's slow.

For me at least, the job design is so unsatisfying that I haven't experienced whether or not I even like the story because I have no job to play through the story with. I don't care for tanks at all, I'm burnt out of DPS because I want more than just doing DPS, and the healers are in a horrible state especially for clearing the MSQ. Honestly if I could, I'd just buy a skip potion and faff around doing all the non PVE content. There's glams I want to grab that I can't because I'm stuck at 90.

[KisaiTenshi]

Someone seems to have forgotten though that the Final Fantasy series is famed for story more than gameplay (and that this is a Final Fantasy game first and foremost.).

This.

People are playing this game because it is firstly a "Final Fantasy" game with "Final Fantasy" names attached to it. If this game was "Generic MMORPG with Lore I do not care about, and characters gated behind gacha mechanics" people would not be pulled into it.

Like it's amazing that people are complaining that FFXIV is a Final Fantasy game. If you want to skip everything and play a gacha, play "FF7 Ever Crisis", the story is nerfed, you can pick whatever characters you want to do the story with, and you aren't compelled to play it in order.

If you cut the entire story from FFXIV, then the rest of the game is just a generic grindfest and you can get that from all the the hands-on-your-wallet F2P MMO games.

People who come from WoW, either are amazed there is a story at all, or decry having to do the story just to play with their friends/RP. For the latter there are skips. Thank you for buying the game twice, your impatience fuels future development on content you're going to skip too.

The point I'm making here is that if this was not a "Final Fantasy" to begin with, you need look at all the other trashfires Square-Enix has put out in the mobile space that has had poor uptake and they shutdown almost immediately. See what happened with Chocobo Racing GP, they basically gave it 9 months. Most of the people who heard about it's shutdown didn't even know it existed! And those that did saw it for being an evil monetization game and spent their time somewhere else. Remember what happened with version 1.0 of FFXIV? Square-Enix has a VERY VERY poor track record on listening to global feedback. What works in Japan (mobile-centric gacha games) does not work outside of east asia because the commuter culture is different. If you want a game to do well in the West, it has to have a PC port. A mobile-only game will fail unless it only has a 90 second gameplay loop.


The most important rule for getting people to play a game, is making it accessible (regardless of skill level) enough so that players and their friends can play it together. Regardless if you gate the content behind gacha, 300 hours of cutscenes, or a 79.99 price tag, that still means some players AND their friends are going to skip playing the game and play something that doesn't have the "fun" part gated.

Smash Bros, Mario Party and Mario Kart are the most successful "party" and "multiplayer" games entirely because you only NEED the game. You do not need a subscription, gacha for characters, or have to sit through hours of cutscenes to start playing with your friends. You only need to own the game and the very-expensive console. A more successful game would need to eliminate the console and initial game cost. So go look at the PC, there's a handful of free games that clone the basic way Smash Bros, Mario Party and Mario Kart work, but they don't have the traction those games have because the gate the content behind gacha or grind. If you want to play with a friend, well you have three characters in the "free" mode that rotate every day. Good luck learning how to play the game when you keep changing the rules. That problem exists in Dissida NT, and exists in a handful of other "free" fighting games.

Meanwhile Nintendo tried all these mobile phone games, just like Square did, and also failed. Not because they made "mobile phone" games, but because they didn't put the games on the PC. Nintendo must hate money so much that they never want Mario Kart on the PC. Square-Enix likewise failed to do so.

FFXIV is Square-Enix's only "successful" multiplayer game, and had it not been a "numbered" FF game, they would have killed it back in 2010 after a few months too. That is the only, single reason, why this game still exists. The company was embarrassed that it put it's big brand marquee on a game that was incomplete and performed poorly.

People want this to be a Final Fantasy game. Not a copy-paste of another game reskinned with FF characters.

[Malthir]

This.
People are playing this game because it is firstly a "Final Fantasy" game with "Final Fantasy" names attached to it. If this game was "Generic MMORPG with Lore I do not care about, and characters gated behind gacha mechanics" people would not be pulled into it.
The point I'm making here is that if this was not a "Final Fantasy" to begin with, you need look at all the other trashfires Square-Enix has put out in the mobile space that has had poor uptake and they shutdown almost immediately. See what happened with Chocobo Racing GP, they basically gave it 9 months. Most of the people who heard about it's shutdown didn't even know it existed! And those that did saw it for being an evil monetization game and spent their time somewhere else.

FFXIV is Square-Enix's only "successful" multiplayer game, and had it not been a "numbered" FF game, they would have killed it back in 2010 after a few months too. That is the only, single reason, why this game still exists. The company was embarrassed that it put it's big brand marquee on a game that was incomplete and performed poorly.

People want this to be a Final Fantasy game. Not a copy-paste of another game reskinned with FF characters.

Here's an example of where you're wrong.

in FF8 you beat the boss at the top of the satellite dish, the player is then chased through the town by a giant spider bot, you as the player are running from this thing, getting in fights trying to escape, you feel connected, there are 2 cutscenes, one when the player moves from one screen to the next the bot has a 4s cutscene smashing a car as it run, then another roughly 10s cutscene at the end when you jump onto your ship to get away. this is excellent use of cutscenes to heighten the story but leaving the bulk of the actions to the players.

If this was done by theses writers, there would be no gameplay section, you would leave the satellite tower, and the a cutscene of you running through the town would play and then end with you getting on the boat, then while on the boat you would have 6 different 1m cutscenes where the character would speak about the escape 6 times to each character talking about the exact same plot points that have just been covered; Without the gameplay there's not really a game, you're watching a movie with extra steps, and it's a rather boring story where everyone stands still and monologues.

That's the difference. While FF was always a story heavy game, you had alot of gameplay to break up the story beats, individual dialogue ingame cutscenes were rarely longer than 1m broken up heavily by more gameplay.