Game Design Concepts that the Devs and Playerbase has Forgotten

[SwadTheFrog]

Yes it does, I'd get a refund on your degree LMAO

Shit, you're right.

[ReynTime]

Oh if you skim through Sakurai's channel you will notice quite a few concepts that Final Fantasy XIV completely ignores. There was one about player reward that was also very relevant.

Yoshida met Sakurai at least once. Harada tweeted a picture of him dining with Sakurai and Yoshida this year. Who knows if that means anything in terms of game design conversation (probably doesn't)

[Jojoya]

Thinking in terms of game design, I've been seeing a lot of talk about things that the FFXIV Devs seems to have forgotten, or just dropped, and the playerbase growing so used to it that they're now pushing for that direction for this game's design.

1. Just Let Them Play - Link

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2. Let Them Skip - Link

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3. Echo Chambers - Link

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If anyone has more examples, pleased do share. I think it's important to talk and be reminded about good game design to better our games.

1. This isn't an arcade game. Not every game needs to be styled after arcade games to be enjoyable. If you want the immediate gratification that an arcade style game can provide, play one. There are thousand of free to play games available to choose from.

2. This game is built around the story. You can skip most of it if you want but that's going to leave a poor experience. Are you sure this is the game you want to be playing when there are plenty out there where the story is just an afterthought?

3. Every game with a large enough player base has multiple echo chambers. Ignore them if they're bothering you. That's what 90% of the player base is already doing. They just play the game and ignore the gossip.

4. Good game design will be different things to different players. Not everyone enjoys the same design. Find the game you want to be playing instead of picking a random game expecting it to change to conform to what you want. Change isn't going to occur when you keep throwing money at something you don't like.

[Battler-Ushiromiya]

Shit, you're right.

I'd really prefer if you got mad and yelled instead of playing along

[SwadTheFrog]

I'd really prefer if you got mad and yelled instead of playing along

It's too late. It's always been too late.

[ShadowyZero]

this game can be both a final fantasy and a mmo it doesn't need to priortize one or the other. historically the brand of FF is a stable rpg series you are given adventures to go on with optional side content along the way and ways to boost power of your party members an usually alot of troupes are used for characters and settings.

as for what constitutes a massive multiplayer with online functionality the genre is not strictly tied to battles some games are just central to catter to different types of players wether it be an adventure with friends(allies) farming for loot/treasure, exploration, lore building, roleplaying, and much more
Final Fantasy XIV has tried to catter to all that and more which isn't a bad thing but it does make some areas or aspects of the game suffer and the outcry seems to mostly stem from people wanting more of a challenge in combat which is all well and good and is perfectly fine for stuff like raids, pvp, or trials but for story just leave it alone its fine as is its meant to be super casual from the get go its not there to punish you lol but rather to guide your hand and give you a literal movie to watch with which you have limited autonomy

[ViaDesperare]

I think it's important to remember that the first 30mins of your game is REALLY important in retaining a player's attention. When comparing FFXIV to other story heavy games, it can fail hard on that aspect if the story isn't engaging to the player.

1. Xenoblade 3: Future Redeemed Intro
I think if they learn from the Xenoblade formula, where the intro introduces a strong [Hook] to grab a players interest and then proceed to introduce game mechanics earlier into the story. This is a win for players of want to enjoy gameplay and those for story.

2. When it comes to exploration, FFXIV uses it's MSQ to move players around the map and then the Aether currents are used to make us explore more, but not really. I think this is a waste on map design, because maps are one and done and forgotten outside of hunt trains and even then, we ignore everything except for the monster. It's true that we have a sigh seeing log, but I think the rewards from that is lackluster. What's discoverable on the map is also located in different sections of menus.

To be rewarded well and to make the map more presentable, I think if FFXIV does something similar to Future Redeemed's map then it would compel people to find those side objectives.


Notice how it has all those side objectives located in one area, telling you the maximum amount for each? I think something like this would be compelling for players to make them want to explore more, especially if they end up having something along the lines of 4/7 landmarks remaining.



You can also have small mini games around the map to facillate exploration as well, like in Genshin/Wuthering/TotK. I think just adding something small to do on each map, with a count to them would help a lot in livening up the MSQ experience a lot more. It could be very simple puzzles, or minigames, etc. Just something to do.

3. SQX's lack of Innovation

I think, if Square wants to make their game better than games like Genshin then they need to be more innovative. They can't go be angry and jealous over those games when they often neglect many of their games and then their gacha always just dies off due to horrible management and greed. FFXIV is REALLY darn greedy too, with the class locked gear being sold on the store and thus we'll never get to glamour heavy armor to all the healer robes UNLESS we pay money to buy the non locked version online. The unlocked version online are the Alphinaude Shadowbringer and Ysale set of the many.

[Shurrikhan]

Oh, that's funny. Seriously, try saying something positive on here, or daring to raise a counterpoint in any of the avalanche of negative threads, and watch the echo chamber descend on you, attack you, belittle you, and high-five each other while they do it. This place is absolutely a negative echo chamber, and has been for long before DT. Wow.

People generally haven't dismissed your posts for being positive. They do so because rarely have belligerence, condescension, fallacy, and misinformation existed so strongly together as in many of your recent posts...

I don't think much of anyone with soundly reasoned praise for the game would want to claim you as a representative of that camp, at least from recent exposure. It's not a polarized camp issue. It's an issue in the manner of one's posts.

[Striker44]

People generally haven't dismissed your posts for being positive. They do so because rarely have belligerence, condescension, fallacy, and misinformation existed so strongly together as in many of your recent posts...

I don't think much of anyone with soundly reasoned praise for the game would want to claim you as a representative of that camp, at least from recent exposure. It's not a polarized camp issue. It's an issue in the manner of one's posts.

Point proven! Genuine challenge - please show me where I have posted fallacies, misinformation, etc..

Because see, what just happened here is you took someone who posts positive things about the game, lied about what they do, and then used it to attack them (all to the applause of your fellows as the "likes" suggest). That's exactly what I'm takling about.

Also, I wasn't even talking about me, specifically, though you could go to the infamous "strike" thread where I dared to point out that I've found I need to heal more often in DT (which multiple other posters have said as well) only to have the first response just insinuate "you must be bad at healing". That's a glowing example of what I mean.

Or just check out any of the positive threads on here. Watch how quickly the negative group descends on it. Here's a great example:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...hread-SPOILERS

Within 1 minute of posting, before the person could even explain what they liked, you had two passive-aggressive attacks getting several dozen high-fives, followed by multiple others down the line.

Seriously, though. My challenge to you stands. Show me where I've posted misinformation or fallacies. Go for it.

People disagreeing with you in droves does not equate Echo Chamber.

Never said it did. Why put words in my mouth? Look at the sheer number of negative threads about virtually anything and compare to the number of positive ones, then watch how even in those minute few positive threads, the negative posters still come in and flood it. Why deny what this place is? Cut out the whataboutism (Reddit) and let's just acknowledge reality.

[SwadTheFrog]

Never said it did. Why put words in my mouth?

Because I recognize you from other threads, where all you do is antagonize other people and ignore any form of criticism, no matter how well-structured it is, you tend strawman everything with a very reductvist attittude. This is not a diss at you, by the way, but rather a gentle nudge that you can and should take other people's opinions into account without dismissing them because they don't line up with yours. I agree that DW has a fair few good points (Music, for the most part is really good, and battle content design has gotten better), but your attitude has been genuinely reductive and harmful for discussion.

Lastly, ", then watch how even in those minute few positive threads, the negative posters still come in and flood it. ". You mean how people that are positive on DW come to negative threads to speak ttheir piece, too? Do you think that a thread about positive thinigs in the game shouldn't have people challenging those ideas much in the same way threads that have negative perceptions on things shouldn't be challenged by people that liked DT? You think they should sit on their own corners not interacting? That is literally an Echo Chamber.