Remove Trust System from future Trials

[SDaemon]

Yes the Wuk Lmao dislike is real, that is being discussed in other threads and people are going to speak up about it. However I do not wish to create another thread revolving around that, although I realise how I wrote the OP so I have caused this reaction rather than starting a critical conversation about this topic.

To the point at hand though, for example, the Valigarmanda trial at 93, although built up in an okay manner at best, it still has to shoehorn in Zarool Ja to do a complete 180 and help the group to create the 8 required for a Trust fight, despite this not being a part of his character, which is pretty jarring and especially so once you see how he pans out throughout the rest of DT.

The level 99 trial Trust team creation is pretty inexcusable, with several Scions just appearing out of thin air to fulfil the requirements for a Trust fight. It really is quite grating on the narrative and the build ups to these fights, this is unfortunately a writing problem.

Honestly, I find the Azem crystal nonsense, where you yank random nobodies from across the rift to help you, much more of a cheap narrative pull than characters from the MSQ popping up for a trial fight.

[MeteorShan]

I love how so many people ignore the argument of "because of Trusts, it changes the narrative of the game, in one instance nonsensical" and just spout "don't use Trusts then" without even trying to understand the point. Thing is, even if a player were to not use Trusts, said player would still watch the cutscenes in the MSQ, where suddenly Character N appears out of nowhere.
Square Enix needs to write the story in a way that puts Trusts in the general area of the instance, to justify their existence in the Instance. That is the issue OP is pointing out, and I have to say, I quite agree with that stance. Its not that the Trust system is a bad thing, its that it impacts the story in noticeable ways.

Thank you for understanding my point

[Gortys]

Its not that the Trust system is a bad thing, its that it impacts the story in noticeable ways.

For me it wasn't any trial that had this impact. It was the first duty where the scions I did a trust with were also cutting my path off. But that so far is the only issue I noticed in regards to narrative. To me that's just another example of what is covered in other threads regarding DT story issues.

[TaleraRistain]

FFXI did it better, where Trust is a form of magic, so you can summon any avatar of a character to fight at your side without the actual character being there. How can this be applied to FFXIV? Simple. Duty support but with Scions trust to fill the gaps, including one that aren't even present or nearby. Even better if you try to waive the Trust system into lore where Azem crystal does the job to fill the gaps.

I like this idea that we would summon avatars of our Scion friends kind of like Themis did in Pandaemonium. Then we will still get the "WoL is the one who can handle these things" but we're calling upon the Azem creation magic to bring the avatars of our friends to help us.

[MeteorShan]

Honestly, I find the Azem crystal nonsense, where you yank random nobodies from across the rift to help you, much more of a cheap narrative pull than characters from the MSQ popping up for a trial fight.

I can understand why people could feel that way, although I would still argue that the Azem crystal summoning is far better than having seven random adventurers appearing out of nowhere to team up with you like it's done in the earlier expansions. How would that feel when you're in Ultima Thule of the edge of existence and seven people just appear with no reasoning behind it?

I'd also put it to you then in a different way....what alternative would you have, compared to the Azem crystal, as a reason for 7 other adventurers to appear at your side?

[Turtledeluxe]

If your problem was actually with the narrative then the thread would be about the narrative. Instead you are abolishing an entire in game function because of a character and a handful of cutscenes.

There's really no need to argue about it anyway because Trusts and Duty Support are going absolutely nowhere, with no less utility.

[MeteorShan]

If your problem was actually with the narrative then the thread would be about the narrative. Instead you are abolishing an entire in game function because of a character and a handful of cutscenes.

Characters and cutscenes are literally part of the narrative.....and the build up and participation in trials is a big part of the narrative overall, which the Trust system is a part of.

[SDaemon]

I can understand why people could feel that way, although I would still argue that the Azem crystal summoning is far better than having seven random adventurers appearing out of nowhere to team up with you like it's done in the earlier expansions. How would that feel when you're in Ultima Thule of the edge of existence and seven people just appear with no reasoning behind it?

I'd also put it to you then in a different way....what alternative would you have, compared to the Azem crystal, as a reason for 7 other adventurers to appear at your side?

The Azem crystal is literally summoning seven random adventurers from out of nowhere to team up with you. In Ultima Thule you use the crystal to summon seven random people, who have no connection to the plot you just went through, and yoink them into your fight. The Trusts are at least characters relevant to the plot of the MSQ, despite how flimsy a reason they have for being there. I'm not suggesting there should be an alternative to the Azem crystal, only that the Azem crystal from a narrative standpoint feels more jarring and flow breaking to me than 7 NPCs that have been consistently in the MSQ up to that point joining in for whatever reason.

[Aurumis]

It's an optional feature what is wrong with you?
My favorite time in the game when I play the MSQ is doing all the dungeons and trials with the trust system and the characters I'm with in the story, that's the best they have implemented.
You have roullettes and other things to make your trials. Shit open a party finder and ask for help if you need it. Don't use the trust system if you don't want to, you are not bound to use it.

Plesae keep the Trust system, it's the best.

[Ririta]

Yes the Wuk Lmao dislike is real, that is being discussed in other threads and people are going to speak up about it. However I do not wish to create another thread revolving around that, although I realise how I wrote the OP so I have caused this reaction rather than starting a critical conversation about this topic.

To the point at hand though, for example, the Valigarmanda trial at 93, although built up in an okay manner at best, it still has to shoehorn in Zarool Ja to do a complete 180 and help the group to create the 8 required for a Trust fight, despite this not being a part of his character, which is pretty jarring and especially so once you see how he pans out throughout the rest of DT.

The level 99 trial Trust team creation is pretty inexcusable, with several Scions just appearing out of thin air to fulfil the requirements for a Trust fight. It really is quite grating on the narrative and the build ups to these fights, this is unfortunately a writing problem.

Valigarmanda wouldn't need to exist if not to show Zoraal Ja's obsession with proving that he's worthy of being a miracle and prove that he can be better than Gulool Ja Ja. He didn't help out of goodness in his heart, he wanted to prove himself.

His disappointment over learning that Valigarmanda was weak compared to when it fought Gulool Ja Ja also serves as a hook to why he couldn't feel satisfied enough with killing Gulool Ja Ja, who was old and had the head of reason dead, and he became obsessed with beating Wuk Lamat who did beat Gulool Ja Ja at his prime - something that Zoraal Ja couldn't do.

If anything, him NOT being there would go against his character - Zoraal Ja would never miss a chance to prove himself worthy of being the miracle. His character is eternally falling short of proving himself. He beat Valigarmanda but it was weak. He failed to beat Gulool Ja Ja in his prime. He failed to become dawnservant. He beat Gulool Ja Ja but he was old. He failed to beat Koana's army. He failed to beat Wuk Lamat in combat. He's perma cucked. That's his character.