You pull you tank question.

[CuteBucket]

I love tanking. I've never had a YPYT mentality. Honestly I don't usually care at all if the DPS get ahead of me for whatever reason, I'll catch up and pull the mobs off them. Managing aggro is my job, after all.

However...

A few days ago, I had a very strange experience in roulettes that I had never, in my years of playing this game, encountered. I'm playing Paladin, and one of the DPS is a Dancer. This dancer keeps popping sprint and running to the next gate, as well as using all of the charges of their gap closer. There is obviously no way I can keep up with that while making sure I have aggro on each mob I'm trying to collect. However I was never so far behind as to put the dancer in any real danger--I would catch up and get all the mobs off of them and the healer would heal them. I didn't even think much of it until this person made a passive aggressive comment in chat. Some juvenile thing like "wow sure would be nice not take so much damage." So I replied asking them what they meant and got back some crap like "?????? what do you think." So I stopped and asked, "Do you have a problem with how I'm tanking?" and they said "maybe," while continuing to race ahead at every pull. "Okay, what is the problem? Your health hasn't been low enough to be in any danger, we're wall-to-wall pulling, and I'm keeping the mobs off of you even though you pulled them, so where is the issue?" I asked. They didn't answer.

Oh yeah, and this player's search info said "if I bully you, it's because you deserve it <3" Yet they can't even form a coherent criticism of my tanking. That's the first time I actually saw the merit in "You pull you tank." Not all of us are here to try to do some advanced movement tech frame perfect speedrun of the dungeon. Yes, I'm going to slow down and collect the aggro of the first pack before I run ahead to the next pack as the tank. It's not a race.

[Karkarov]

I love tanking. I've never had a YPYT mentality. Honestly I don't usually care at all if the DPS get ahead of me for whatever reason, I'll catch up and pull the mobs off them. Managing aggro is my job, after all.

However...

A few days ago, I had a very strange experience in roulettes that I had never, in my years of playing this game, encountered. I'm playing Paladin, and one of the DPS is a Dancer. This dancer keeps popping sprint and running to the next gate, as well as using all of the charges of their gap closer. There is obviously no way I can keep up with that while making sure I have aggro on each mob I'm trying to collect. However I was never so far behind as to put the dancer in any real danger--I would catch up and get all the mobs off of them and the healer would heal them. I didn't even think much of it until this person made a passive aggressive comment in chat. Some juvenile thing like "wow sure would be nice not take so much damage." So I replied asking them what they meant and got back some crap like "?????? what do you think." So I stopped and asked, "Do you have a problem with how I'm tanking?" and they said "maybe," while continuing to race ahead at every pull. "Okay, what is the problem? Your health hasn't been low enough to be in any danger, we're wall-to-wall pulling, and I'm keeping the mobs off of you even though you pulled them, so where is the issue?" I asked. They didn't answer.

Oh yeah, and this player's search info said "if I bully you, it's because you deserve it <3" Yet they can't even form a coherent criticism of my tanking. That's the first time I actually saw the merit in "You pull you tank." Not all of us are here to try to do some advanced movement tech frame perfect speedrun of the dungeon. Yes, I'm going to slow down and collect the aggro of the first pack before I run ahead to the next pack as the tank. It's not a race.

So all this means is you got lucky for years. This happens every so often in groups, some idiot dps or healer will intentionally charge in front of you while you are collecting mobs as part of a wall to wall, then act like they are doing anything other than being an annoying moron who is making the run harder and more complicated. No time is getting saved here, they aren't dpsing the mobs you have aggro on so they die a little slower, the healer has to heal them (or themselves) so they lost some dps, you have to possibly move more or do ranged moves with crap damage you normally wouldn't do so tank lost dps and it might have taken a little longer to group the enemies up.

This isn't a tank problem, this is a DPS and or a Healer who is just a jerk problem.

[GTK0HLK]

-snip-

Nothing against what you said.

But you just gave an example of an exception.
That I\\'m sure you understood fully well.
That people who would support the ego tanks, will show this and use it every single time to back their Ego Chasing.

______________________________________________

I find it funny that in previous pages. they always kept focusing on exceptions (Those who kept defending the ego tanks. Against the scenario where a player speaks/acts badly against the party.)

(Slightly offtopic) it reminded me, in old totorak. I was Healing(think it was WHM, or SCH. likely WHM at the time) and I would run ahead and wait outside of pull range. and the Random Lala DPS would state that I kept doing that, and basically was telling me to not rush ahead. <Not even a Second later. as I responded neutrally to them> they also ran ahead.

Once called out, they immediately began to troll. take damage, run into others.

In the end, at the spider boss, me and the dps had to duo the boss, cause the lala DPS kept trolling the party, and the tank sadly took the brunt of it.
______________________________________________

All this to say, there is a fine, large middle of what is okay. We all generally know it.

and in this thread we are talking about the EgoChasing Tanks who spout the YPYT Memorandum/Oath.

Sad you had to deal with One specific Random DPS who Clearly was just a trouble already made to begin with. Just like the lala who seemed to shirk/project their bs onto others in my example back in old totorak.

Guess simply Put.

The Balance between Idiocy/Ignorance/Ego.
Or
Malice/Hate/Conflict.

One Could Be Asked To Call It.
(LOL)

but one thing for sure.

This topic since Inception was about the tanks who don\\'t know why things are they way they are here. Who value their role higher than it\\'s abilities allow it to be.

[angelar_]

on second thought, delete all healer gap closers

[Chrome_Aerial]

what i do as tank being if someone else pulls instead of me is try to pull enemies OFF of them. IF i am not capable of doing this then i just leave them to die and pull the enemy as soon they come in range again.
this rarely happen.

you pull you tank is not something you apply as a standard. usualy this is just a thing if a DPS decided to pull enemy groups and then Sprints away far enough so the tank can't get the enemies off of them.

if you pull enemies as a NON tank. bring them TO the tank. that way you get to play tank as a dps for a few seconds and then drop them off where they belong.
yeah if you don't do that and run off... sorry mate... you got most likely 2 problems chasing you. i might have 10 coming after me. you're on your own until you get back in range

[Zehrylin]

This entire argument is why I have a macro for when I'm brave enough to step into dungeons as a tank (which isn't very often), saying I'm a relatively new dungeon tank and to please be patient with me, and that play tips are appreciated. If someone pulls extra stuff, I'll do my darndest to grab it. If we all die after that... well, I tried, and maybe don't do that next time.

Communication isn't that hard, folks. It is an MMO, after all.

[Chiru_Kai]

Why not...wait? Why not...speak up? Because they inherently WANT conflict.

It's not really wanting conflict. They want speed and predictability. If that conflicts with the tank... kinda shows the issue here.

The dungeon design is simplified: 2 trash pulls you can grab between two hard 'walls'. There's generally 2 packs of enemies each wall-to-wall pull. It has been this exact formula for the last 3 expansions or so, with only minor deviations from that.
If a tank doesn't follow that simple pattern, therefore becoming unpredictable and, inherently, making the dungeon take longer for 3 other players, then that is either a new player, new tank, or a troll looking for trouble. There is no real other option.

If it's a new player or new tank, you can easily grab those additional enemies, drag them to the tank, who *should* be AOEing, they grab aggro, healer can deal with any lack of mitigations that the tank may not be using because inexperienced. It may be "uncomfortable" for the tank to learn how to deal with this, but it's along the same level as learning that you gotta press your healing buttons as a healer. Learn by doing, learn by adapting to what people expect. Don't play badly and then not have consequences to your actions. That's nonsensical entitlement.
A genuinely new tank or player may go "ahh help I don't know how to do this" and the group wipes a few times, and then others can give tips and the new guy will be better for it. This is fine.

If it's a troll or a self-righteous tank who intentionally goes slow but they still have an ego to think that they can just go against the norm because they choose to, they will then intentionally not grab aggro, drop tank stance, and then proceed to throw a fit if you call them out on it. These are the ones who are very aware of what they're doing is against the norm, and they wish to justify it with having an ego trip in chat as a "YOU DARE CHALLENGE ME" like an edgy teenager.

Can this be done with communicating? Yes. And often a healer or DPS will generally say something like "you can do bigger pulls". But this is not a question, and even if posed as a question it really isn't a choice.
If the tank still refuses to pull more, others will do it for them. There is no real choice here. Tough luck. You MUST learn that pace. Just like a healer MUST learn to heal (and contribute to DPS if there is nothing to heal). You can jump high and low and throw a fit screaming that you're being forced to play a certain way. But no, you would be plain wrong. You made the choice to join for roulettes, or for any content with other players. That means that you must do your expected job as a tank, in the way how everyone does it, whether you like it or not. Get over it, or go play a different class.

[Aviatorhead]

You can jump high and low and throw a fit screaming that you're being forced to play a certain way. But no, you would be plain wrong. You made the choice to join for roulettes, or for any content with other players. That means that you must do your expected job as a tank, in the way how everyone does it, whether you like it or not. Get over it, or go play a different class.

There's no rule in the game that says you have to wall to wall as tank. Nor that you have to be as good at the game as other players want you to. If anything, YOU decided to queue the roulette that can give you anything from brand new players to vets. Expecting everyone to be at the same level as you is just silly. If you want a tank that is guaranteed to play how you want, then either play tank yourself or ask someone you know who can.

[Dante131]

well i had a ton of runs where i watched my healers gear and in the first pull how this healer behaves and i adjust to that. so if healer seems insecure to me ill pull less. Which resulted in wipes already becausy funny DPS thinks its his holy duty to pull the other packs while healer struggles to heal me already. When i out call them they are always acting like they didn´t know. exactly but i did why was this necessary ? just stick to the party god how hard can it be. I have sprint on cd everytime and will pull dont worry but if tanks do it slower there probably is a reason for it. Long story short you cant i repeat YOU CANT expect every run be the same as long as you dont do it in your grps. While playing DT i had 0 issues because i played classes where i knew i can keep me alive myself.

Another thing is if the tank guy is new or not confidant pullin for him will not help and you can run around and think everyone is just as good as me. So yeah i get why some tanks feel fcked up by this topic and some already stopped playing tank at all. Problem is we already had a time where nobody wanted to tank do we really miss that ? for my case idc i play stuff i like its just not going into my head why this have to be a topic. just be normal play the dungeon you probably will never see them again

[EchoingPulse]

There's no rule in the game that says you have to wall to wall as tank. Nor that you have to be as good at the game as other players want you to. If anything, YOU decided to queue the roulette that can give you anything from brand new players to vets. Expecting everyone to be at the same level as you is just silly. If you want a tank that is guaranteed to play how you want, then either play tank yourself or ask someone you know who can.

This, right here. Hard agree.

It's not really wanting conflict. They want speed and predictability. If that conflicts with the tank... kinda shows the issue here.

It truly is wanting to stir conflict. If the tank or healer is new to the dungeon or a sprout, then allowing them to pull single packs or however is the best option for everyone; otherwise, you run into wipe after wipe and eventually people leave, the dungeon fails, you are back to waiting for the queue.

And to drive in the point of Aviator said; Then you roll for roulettes, you are committing. If you are dropped into a group of Sprouts? Guess what you are playing to their speed. Don't like it? Leave.