Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Caitamm]

Not sure why the so called regular and leets are so scared of allowing a player base that has problems get through JUST THE MSQ with an xtra choice option like: the ability to use TRUST with an added rez skill from the healer and an easy mode for all the dungeon types during the xpac if people choose to go that route. It won't affect other players at all

Because trusts already do dungeon mechanics perfectly, and if you bring Y'shtola she dodges ahead of time to keep in the lore of her aether eyes. You are already guaranteed a successful clear by just following the trust NPCs, not even hitting any of your own damage buttons. Trusts are already an easy mode, dev time is better spent elsewhere.

[HemlockEvergreen]

Not sure why the so called regular and leets are so scared of allowing a player base that has problems get through JUST THE MSQ with an xtra choice option like: the ability to use TRUST with an added rez skill from the healer and an easy mode for all the dungeon types during the xpac if people choose to go that route. It won't affect other players at all

I do the forced content during the MSQ then never touch those dungeons again. I do not need the gear, I run a bazillion HUNTS and high level S ranks for tomes and then enjoy my other time in game doing fates, crafting, gathering, submarines, etc. Seems a simple fix Square could implement that would only affect the choices of a certain section of the player base. To me, your balkng at this is just a story about "toxic control".

You want to be rezzed by your Trust.

You want to have a condition in which you fail the single-player mode of the game, but you don't have any consequences because the game itself carries you.

Just go read a book bro. You don't want to play a game, you just want a story.

[SueTheCake]

I have to disagree.

The instance design in Dawntrail has been some of the best this game has ever had, I feel. I've been playing since 2.0, not long after it was revived from 1.0, and I don't ever remember any encounter hitting me like some of these new fights, save for maybe the level 89 trial (if you know you know) though that was more for story reasons than design philosophy. Well, and I guess Orbonne Monastery simply because all the bosses are so quotable. The encounters are well designed (though I side-eye the first boss of the Streetwalk and his legion of mascot minions) and require me to use more mental bandwith than anything that came out in the last expansion. I physically found myself unable to do the mental calculations for the line swords in the 99 trial so I opted to rely on a friend and followed them to the safe spots. I was fine.

Endwalker's content was disappointingly easy. It was borderline boring. Whoever was in charge of the instance design team in Dawntrail seriously cooked, but by the nature of the content becoming more difficult it is expected that not every player is going to be able to adjust to it. It is unfortunate that some people have difficulty - it's part of being human. I wouldn't denigrate people who cannot do the content or have issue with it, but equally we have to understand that that fact alone is not deserving of pandering on a broader scale.

FFXIV cultivates a large playerbase of multiple people who all have different desires. Roleplayers, Casuals, Hardcore Raiders, Glamourers, whatever. The devs cannot make content that appeals to everyone, and though far from perfect as a sentiment, it calls to mind what the Helldivers developers said: a game for everyone is a game for no-one. In fact, I was so surprised by so many people criticizing Dawntrail's instanced content, much more so than those who criticized the story - I feel like these are the most fun and engaging fights CBU3 has cooked up in a long while.

Is there an easy answer to this? Perhaps permitting people to clear content with Trusts and no EXP/drops with the Echo ala Unsynced content is probably the best. Removing duties from roulettes is a non-starter because then the queue times for people who are getting through the game will be even longer. I've gotten the Nier raids recently after having not done them for a very long time and while I had to blow off the rust and did die once or twice it's not the end of the world.

But the reality is we cannot have the game's content suffer because not every person can clear it. It cannot appeal to the lowest common denominator. Giving them a way to complete dungeons that are necessary if they physically cannot on their own is one option, but it should not affect the overarching design philosophy of the game for the majority of the populace. Give them tools to succeed, but do not take those tools away from the rest of the playerbase.

[Laerune]

There is a reason why SE has given all roles more healing skills. They know that players will need to adjust, they will fail and die, fail and die, untill they learn and win. Asking for easier content in the first month of the game is to soon, in my opinion. I died many times, I learned and completed the dungeon/trail/raid. We become better, SE makes harder content and the cycle repeats.

[Xapapetsu]

I personally don't believe the dungeons are all that much harder than endwalker or shadowbringers dungeons. They are designed differently with physical telegraphs where you need to look at the boss, but that's been a thing since ARR, you just had more time to react to them since it was teaching you the game. At level 100 I think you should be versed enough in the game to be able to learn the telegraphs and adjust to them. If you're struggling in content play with other players, they'll literally carry you through the content. I think adjusting the trust would be fine if the developers want to make the game easier for people but I don't think making the dungeons easier is beneficial to the majority of players. On the opposite end I think extreme dungeons would be more of a benefit for players to be able to understand extreme mechanics to move towards extreme and savage raiding. With that being said I think the changes to trust is a good idea because it doesn't affect the entire player base. As for the difficulty I wouldn't compare it to souls games, people won't take you seriously when you make that comparison because it's not even close.

[Bright-Flower]

Hard disagree from me. I've loved the dungeons, trials and raids so far this expansion. In fact, this is the first time since Stormblood I felt inspired to actualy pursue doing an EX trial and got my first Valigarmanda kills in last night and it was great.

While the msq was a mixed bag for me personally, one I overall enjoyed in the moment but have issues with looking back on it, the pve content has been really good. The dungeons are all fun and engaging. (Even if the first dungeon ends up feeling kind of pointless story wise, it's still a fun romp.) Really the only boss fight I take issue with in DT so far is the first boss of Deadwalk, and that's only because latency can make dodging the enemies on that one frustrating and wonky rather than having an issue with the fight in theory.

For the first boss of the msq 100 dungeon, just keep an eye on the shapes as they appear and don't worry about doing damage if you need to and priorize moving into position for each one. It's a tight check but doable unless you have a lot of lag, which will get you killed in just about any fight anyway.

Any comparison to Dark Souls/Elden Ring is overblown. This isn't anywhere near that level, even accounting for how Dark Souls and similar games tend to have a reputation for being harder than they actually are. Not everything mildly challenging is 'dark souls.'

[RezPls]

"I controlled my toon for 400+ hours of MSQ and 100 levels to get to walled by a sequence of 7 slowly telegraphed aoes"

/thread

[MaaryZeleste]

Anyone who has a problem in normal dungeons/trials/raids should just uninstall and go play stardew valley or animal crossing or something.

[BobaSaur]

DT difficulty is where it should have been for Endwalker period. You've just never put in effort to actually learn how to play combat in FFXIV.

Nothing is new.(you've seen these mechanics before EVERY. SINGLE. EXPANSION)
Nothing is random(even the "random" aoes in some of the dungeons)
Nothing requires high reactions speed(The cues are VERY obvious and you have upwards of over 10seconds to solve the more layered mechanics which BTW are still things you've seen before)

If you're genuinely walled by a boss(wiping 10+ times with no progress) Ask for help because chances are you're missing something and solving things in a very inefficient way. If you're rejecting help just because "you know how to play. you've been playing since XXX expansion" I think the problem is obvious...
If you can react to a traffic light turning green before the old guy behind you honks, you can play this game just FINE.

The MSQ dungeons is something that EVERYONE interacts with for the WHOLE expansion, its not just a isolated event. You can't put in a "story mode" without having HUGE impacts on the whole state of the game e.g If trust become too strong exp would become unbalanced e.g2 If you have a story mode how would you do roulettes? two different queues? diluting a player base for no reason?.

The only way a "story mode" would work would be to remove all rewards and progression from that track and at that point... go watch a youtube video of the MSQ. Don't waste the devs time.

Stop calling yourself "casuals". Casual players can still beat ultimates, EXs and savages just at an extended time period. Trying to change the game because it doesn't meet your standards while calling out everyone for enjoying a more engaging piece of content is hypocritical.

To the people who have genuine reasons which impact their ability to play the game, I sympathize with you, no one genuinely flames people for not being able to perform during roulettes and most will carry you through it. Also there a multiple ways to make your setup more efficient and tailored to your situation but you also have to understand that this game can't be tailormade for every single individual.