Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Bright-Flower]

Hard disagree from me. I've loved the dungeons, trials and raids so far this expansion. In fact, this is the first time since Stormblood I felt inspired to actualy pursue doing an EX trial and got my first Valigarmanda kills in last night and it was great.

While the msq was a mixed bag for me personally, one I overall enjoyed in the moment but have issues with looking back on it, the pve content has been really good. The dungeons are all fun and engaging. (Even if the first dungeon ends up feeling kind of pointless story wise, it's still a fun romp.) Really the only boss fight I take issue with in DT so far is the first boss of Deadwalk, and that's only because latency can make dodging the enemies on that one frustrating and wonky rather than having an issue with the fight in theory.

For the first boss of the msq 100 dungeon, just keep an eye on the shapes as they appear and don't worry about doing damage if you need to and priorize moving into position for each one. It's a tight check but doable unless you have a lot of lag, which will get you killed in just about any fight anyway.

Any comparison to Dark Souls/Elden Ring is overblown. This isn't anywhere near that level, even accounting for how Dark Souls and similar games tend to have a reputation for being harder than they actually are. Not everything mildly challenging is 'dark souls.'

[ExiaKuromonji]

They're not comparable, that's the point. If you stuck to the game because of Ultimate content, Alexandria will not stay interesting for any length of time. You are too much better than most players for that to be feasible.

Except... You did compare them, which is why you stated it would still remain interesting for the players looking to do ultimates in the post Tiwusch was responding to. But lets respond to this:

If you stuck to the game because of Ultimate content, Alexandria will not stay interesting for any length of time. You are too much better than most players for that to be feasible.

This immediately contradicts what you just stated. But I'll expand upon how I think this is wrong.

Doing an ultimate raid does not mean those players are somehow magically incapable of comparing normal dungeons to other normal dungeons. In fact I whenever I consider how hard content is, whether I think about how hard a savage is, an ultimate raid, an alliance raid, a dungeon. I will always compare them to other content on that same level. And to be honest. DT dungeons, with the exception of maybe Strayborough are pretty much in line with what ShB dungeons in terms of difficulty. Hell... The boss everyone is saying is too hard (1st boss of Alexandria), isn't one I'd even consider harder than Magus Sisters.

Everything I've seen in these posts about content being too hard has all been pity fishing and blatantly lazy players. Stop being lazy. And stop blaming disabilities for reasons why you can't do content that even disabled people can do.

[Necrofang17]

Oh, it would be absolutely and overwhelmingly stacked against OP. But I firmly believe these forums don't represent the views of the community as a whole, no forum populace ever does.

Yes, if it represented the whole community it would be even more stacked against OP. At the end of the day, a majority of people will still casually do their daily experts like these forums don't even exist. Because that's what these dungeons are. Casual.

I'll try and be as constructive as I can for a moment. The Dawntrail dungeons are objectively more challenging than any other expansion's dungeons we've ever gotten. However, past expansions have not exactly set a high bar. The mechanics in these dungeons are extremely easy to read and don't even go that fast. Every mechanic is not just waiting for some orange lines to spawn on the ground. That being said, you shouldn't be upset with yourself for not understanding a mechanic the first time you see it, or even the first few times. Some people read different types of mechanics at different paces and that's fine.

I've seen a few posts for these dungeons with absurd comparisons to Extreme trials, Savages and even Ultimates. What I'd like to ask is that you(or anyone who has made comparisons like this) dip your toes into one of these fights so that you can see the VAST ocean between that type of content and these dungeons. Trying that type of content WILL make you a better player, even if you don't succeed.

Posts like from the OP also say that hardcore players already have content in the form of Savages and Ultimates. I'd like to be clear that this is still the case, it is still ALL they have. 14 whole encounters over a 3 years span is what hardcore players have. 12 of which I'd barely consider hardcore as plenty of casual players do Savages with decently high performance. Though that remains to be seen with DT savages.

So with all of that being said, while harder than previous expansions; Dawntrail dungeons are still casual. Games SHOULD get harder the higher level you are. Wipe, learn, repeat. Nobody will be mad at you.

[RezPls]

"I controlled my toon for 400+ hours of MSQ and 100 levels to get to walled by a sequence of 7 slowly telegraphed aoes"

/thread

[ArielTimeshrine]

"Get good" does not always work and is not a valid response in all cases, there are literally past mechanics from older expansions I continue to have problems with even after encountering them at least 20 times, and I don't foresee practice making any difference on these. These are some examples of mechanics I will never be able to "get good" at:

1. Zodiark "Astral Eclipse" from Endwalker.
2. The Neir raid fight with the black and white blocks
3. Ultima the high seraph has some weird off-screen mechanic that kills me and I never see where it comes from.
4. Tower of Zot's Sanduruva, specifically Manusya Confuse. I'm on the autism spectrum, and have some difficulty picking up body language and facial expressions. The differences in the poses are too subtle for me to pick up and process this mechanic. To me they all just look the same. I'm unable to do this mechanic on my own, and have to follow the trust NPC's or follow a player and hope they run to the right spot.

1. Astral Eclipse is consistent, actually, and can always be dodged the same way.
2. I'll give you Nier. Nier is hard even if you're actually good.
3. Have you ever tried, y'know, paying attention to how the crystals get moved and blast you with cross AoEs?
4. Have you ever tried, y'know, looking for DoT ticks that very definitely don't immediately give the real boss away?

[Besame]

Not sure why the so called regular and leets are so scared of allowing a player base that has problems get through JUST THE MSQ with an xtra choice option like: the ability to use TRUST with an added rez skill from the healer and an easy mode for all the dungeon types during the xpac if people choose to go that route. It won't affect other players at all

I do the forced content during the MSQ then never touch those dungeons again. I do not need the gear, I run a bazillion HUNTS and high level S ranks for tomes and then enjoy my other time in game doing fates, crafting, gathering, submarines, etc. Seems a simple fix Square could implement that would only affect the choices of a certain section of the player base. To me, your balkng at this is just a story about "toxic control".

[MaaryZeleste]

Anyone who has a problem in normal dungeons/trials/raids should just uninstall and go play stardew valley or animal crossing or something.

[ArielTimeshrine]

Not sure why the so called regular and leets are so scared of allowing a player base that has problems get through JUST THE MSQ with an xtra choice option like: the ability to use TRUST with an added rez skill from the healer and an easy mode for all the dungeon types during the xpac if people choose to go that route. It won't affect other players at all

I do the forced content during the MSQ then never touch those dungeons again. I do not need the gear, I run a bazillion HUNTS and high level S ranksfor tomes and then enjoy my other time in game doing fates, crafting, gathering, submarines, etc. Seems a simple fix Square could implement that would only affect the choices of a certain section of the player base. To me, your balkng at this is just a story about "control".

Because sacrificing artistic integrity to be all-inclusive is something literally everybody in the industry is doing and it is not a good thing to see regardless of what form that takes?

[RezPls]

Not sure why the so called regular and leets are so scared of allowing a player base that has problems get through JUST THE MSQ with an xtra choice option like: the ability to use TRUST with an added rez skill

It's not us, it's Yoshida and the battle designers finally saying to start paying attention while playing the dungeons in this action MMORPG.

These people are either being disingenuous with their accounts on getting walled in this dungeon or are playing the game under extreme and extraordinary handicaps. For instance, I know a gamer who has body paralysis below the neck and plays games with eye movements and even he is aware and accepts his input limitations. Unless you are at that level of restriction, you need to reevaluate how you are playing the game if Alexandria is too difficult for you to complete.

[Caitamm]

Not sure why the so called regular and leets are so scared of allowing a player base that has problems get through JUST THE MSQ with an xtra choice option like: the ability to use TRUST with an added rez skill from the healer and an easy mode for all the dungeon types during the xpac if people choose to go that route. It won't affect other players at all

Because trusts already do dungeon mechanics perfectly, and if you bring Y'shtola she dodges ahead of time to keep in the lore of her aether eyes. You are already guaranteed a successful clear by just following the trust NPCs, not even hitting any of your own damage buttons. Trusts are already an easy mode, dev time is better spent elsewhere.