BLM needs a rework because of new content difficulty

[Realfoxy]

Yeah, you could say that BLM needs a rework. A rework back into the 6.X version of the job.

Seriously, just take EW BLM and add Retrace + 3rd Polyglot stack + 40s Swiftcast cooldown. Hell you can even increase the F3 and T3 proc chances too. There you go, you now have a much more flexible job that's better suited to mobile content.

[Owyn_Addens]

Yeah, you could say that BLM needs a rework. A rework back into the 6.X version of the job.

Seriously, just take EW BLM and add Retrace + 3rd Polyglot stack + 40s Swiftcast cooldown. Hell you can even increase the F3 and T3 proc chances too. There you go, you now have a much more flexible job that's better suited to mobile content.

Literally if the only changes from 91-100 were these and Fire IV -> Fire V I would've been so down to play the same job for another 3 years.

[OliviaLugria]

It's like they made the job harder while also removing a lot of tec to handle mechanics that require a lot of movement which they out a lot of uneven the new fights...

[Ferrinus]

I think the job is easier if you're not trying to optimize but harder if you are. If you were to sit on your triple and swiftcasts solely until you needed to move, and always use your Firestarter in the same astral cycle you generated it in, you could reliably finish every astral cycle with a flare star and generally maintain uptime consistently. The more you save instants for despair/flare star/transposed b4 and the more you save your f3p for transposing out of umbral, the more boss mechanics are going to hurt. Losing a ton of spellspeed just by gaining levels relative to old gear makes things even worse.

It does feel pretty good to score an instant flare star despite all the things trying to stop you, though.

[Taranok]

I think the job is easier if you're not trying to optimize but harder if you are. If you were to sit on your triple and swiftcasts solely until you needed to move, and always use your Firestarter in the same astral cycle you generated it in, you could reliably finish every astral cycle with a flare star and generally maintain uptime consistently. The more you save instants for despair/flare star/transposed b4 and the more you save your f3p for transposing out of umbral, the more boss mechanics are going to hurt. Losing a ton of spellspeed just by gaining levels relative to old gear makes things even worse.

It does feel pretty good to score an instant flare star despite all the things trying to stop you, though.

The devs also are very much designing the class for triplecast to be used for movement. If the class ever gets a hypothetical real rework to realign it with the death of turret casters as a valid gameplay style, I wouldn't be surprised if fire 4 becomes a 2s cast 2.8s recast spell or something along those lines. Just straight deleting the otherwise implied damage gain of triplecast. Even PCT often has to bank and hold onto hammer time because you might need 6 back to back GCDs due to the sheer RNG of these fights.

Obviously YMMV and your interpretation of whether this is a good or bad thing is whatever, because the reality is that BLM, both EW and DT, just do not fully fit the design of the game the devs are making. They want nonstop jogathons, BLM will need a rework.

Also, I don't know about you, but non-instant flare stars feel really good anyways. Just batter up, swing, and knock it out of the park. There's a lot of things wrong with flare star's design, but that animation is great.

[Sylvain]

1- keep kit the same but increase damage of the job by 15% in comparison of other jobs.

2- do full rework change how casting work for this job ->
- job can cast fire while moving but with slow effect so at least you can move while casting (break effect).
- add amplifier effect for with thunder ability to increase damage of fire abilities
- 2 min meta isn't that easy with black mage.. just improve how we can use umbral heart to do more damage and skip rotation.

1- I think buffs are incoming

2- I litterally sit on 3 xeno + 2x triple cast about 95% of the time, I don't understand how you can lack mobility. Beside the boss with the +O marker spam, (which requires a tiny bit of management), I litterally only use Paradox+Thunder for movement and that's enough.
I don't know how you play BLM, but I really don't see the need for more mobility.

I think the job is easier if you're not trying to optimize but harder if you are. If you were to sit on your triple and swiftcasts solely until you needed to move, and always use your Firestarter in the same astral cycle you generated it in, you could reliably finish every astral cycle with a flare star and generally maintain uptime consistently. The more you save instants for despair/flare star/transposed b4 and the more you save your f3p for transposing out of umbral, the more boss mechanics are going to hurt. Losing a ton of spellspeed just by gaining levels relative to old gear makes things even worse.

It does feel pretty good to score an instant flare star despite all the things trying to stop you, though.

I do feel this way too.

[Xephna]

2- I litterally sit on 3 xeno + 2x triple cast about 95% of the time

Congratulations on outing yourself as a bad BLM who's not qualified to discuss about it's issues.

[Tamaerl]

Dawntrail BLM is about as interesting as playing a healer that can't heal. I want Endwalker BLM back.
I also think PCT is probably in a good spot right now dps-wise and the other dps jobs need to be closer to where PCT is; one of the reason its dps is unusually high is because of thunder skip, which will be getting patched next week. PCT dps should drop slightly once thunder skip is patched out.

[Sylvain]

Congratulations on outing yourself as a bad BLM who's not qualified to discuss about it's issues.

The point being, people complain about mobility being an issue as if their only movement tool was ice paradox. We have plenty of movement tools.
It's obviously better to use some of those tools to enhance your dps but this is part of the whole optimisation game. You sacrifice mobility for a tiny bit of extra damage.
I just don't see the problem.

What I find odd is that people want flexibility and an optimal rotation at the same time. Basically, no matter what you do, the optimal dps rotation is also the one with the highest mobility.
If you want to have a perfect rotation easy rotation with no agency and trade off just play smn i don't know.

What I was trying to point is that, the current content can be done with minimal use of our current mobility tools, of course at a small cost. Most fight currently have very little required movement and can be done almost exclusively with Paradox and Thunder refresh.
Just looking at Eksu he's litterally using almost all his instant during burst. So saying BLM has no mobility is just wrong, unless you mean "no mobility at the cost of even 0.1% of our optimal dps", but then at this point why are you even playing this job? isn't the whole fun of optimising your movement to have as many of those tools during burst?

And this has nothing to do with our current DPS, even if we were grossly overpower and pulled 25k rDPS, the gameplay issue would still be the exact same.

Fine, people may dislike the more rigid rotation (the intended rotation basically) and want the old alternative rotation back, that's fair. People may dislike the new spell, I'm not especially fond of Astral Star, I feel it adds very little to your single target rotation (love it in AoE tho). I also dislike that Astral Flare has a recast of 2.5s has it pushes for it to be cast under swift/3cast, all this is valid and I get it. But ffs don't say "we have no mobility". Men just try AST on TOP and you'll see what it is to have 0 freaking mobility.

[Realfoxy]

The point being, people complain about mobility being an issue as if their only movement tool was ice paradox. We have plenty of movement tools.
It's obviously better to use some of those tools to enhance your dps but this is part of the whole optimisation game. You sacrifice mobility for a tiny bit of extra damage.
I just don't see the problem.

What I find odd is that people want flexibility and an optimal rotation at the same time. Basically, no matter what you do, the optimal dps rotation is also the one with the highest mobility.
If you want to have a perfect rotation easy rotation with no agency and trade off just play smn i don't know.

What I was trying to point is that, the current content can be done with minimal use of our current mobility tools, of course at a small cost. Most fight currently have very little required movement and can be done almost exclusively with Paradox and Thunder refresh.
Just looking at Eksu he's litterally using almost all his instant during burst. So saying BLM has no mobility is just wrong, unless you mean "no mobility at the cost of even 0.1% of our optimal dps", but then at this point why are you even playing this job? isn't the whole fun of optimising your movement to have as many of those tools during burst?

....

See this a perfectly good argument for BLM returning to a Shadowbringers type of design, where there's a severe tradeoff between using tools for DPS and for handling mobility. The problem is that trying to balance a job with ShB style mobility and a rigid rotation is going to create a huge balance problem when SE appears to be doubling down on Endwalker fight design.

Look at what's happening on the Extreme trial fights. EX2 BLM appears to be underpowered, but like you said that can be easily fixed. But then you look at BLM's performance on EX1 and it's completely awful.

The issue is that on heavy movement fights on EX1 it's extremely hard to maintain acceptable DPS while having enough resources to handle the movement. EW BLM didn't have this problem, because the rotation was flexible enough that you could have your triplecast/xeno/ice paradox/T3p do double duty as DPS tools and as movement tools (this was the basis of nonstandard play).

If you take that away and get forced into standard, sure, it works on some fights. But it's not going to work on the types of encounters like DT EX1, Endsinger in Endwalker, TOP P6, etc. And if they buff standard BLM to do acceptable damage in those fights it becomes an overpowered monster in other fights - just look at what happened to BLM after the Xeno buffs when it was underperforming in TOP.