The 1.5s Glare/Broil

[KDSilver]

1,5s cast time was one of the change I have waited the most since... HW I guess.

It made healer gameplay so smooth.

Natural weaving space just like every other jobs.

[Supersnow845]

This is just inaccurate. Think about it, slide-casting is something that can be done to great effect on every single broil cast now. Previously the amount of time you have to slide cast was significantly lower and results a lot of time in simply using ruin II to move a lot instead of now where you have to manage and even pre-plan your movement to upkeep dps. OGCD-covering of raid mechanics is a much bigger deal now than previously as well. In cases of astro and whm in particular the only options were simply reapplying your dot to get in your needed weaves without losing dps. and in sch's case it meant dropping damage for your mandatory weaves leading to an even worse case of what we have now "just let the other healer do it". While this problem still exists today in terms of casting GCD heals, it no longer exists in terms of casting OGCD heals. Which means more buttons are pressed more often.

All that is to say that the change from 2.5s to 1.5sec lead to many changes in healer gameplay that were beneficial for healer gameplay. We did not lose something for nothing.

Yes that’s called lowering the skill ceiling also known as flattening the curve, you made slidecasting infinitely easier and surprise surprise people used damage loss movement abilities less and you gave every attack a weave window, surprise surprise people used damage loss weave window generation abilities less

There is no ifs and buts about this, it lowered the skill ceiling which was the point I was making

We didn’t get

[Post]

Again? Was this something they used to be able to do?

Yes, absolutely. SCH lost this capacity entering 5.0 ShB when they reworked pets to no longer be entities with HP and Aggro like players/chocobos (SMN and SCH also lost the ability for their pets to tank, though this was limited by the fact that every time Demi Bahamut was summoned in StB (or Faerie dissipated or Seraph would have been summoned in ShB) they temporarily left the field and lost all aggro. Without a provoke to regain it, Titan Egi became crippling to use for SMN.

This was a major defining trait of SCH, allowing you to heal one target while directing your faerie to heal another simultaneously, as embrace itself, though weakened from HW to StB, was much stronger and a more important part of your kit until ShB.

You could even direct your Faerie to heal players outside of your party for e.g. FATEs, the main tank in another alliance in 24 mans, or hilariously, the NPCs in the SCH job quests that you can no longer heal with your faerie. Hopefully that's been fixed, but it was what it was for a long time since they weren't 'a party member', technically.

[Zolvolt]

Yes that’s called lowering the skill ceiling also known as flattening the curve, you made slidecasting infinitely easier and surprise surprise people used damage loss movement abilities less and you gave every attack a weave window, surprise surprise people used damage loss weave window generation abilities less

There is no ifs and buts about this, it lowered the skill ceiling which was the point I was making

We didn’t get

It didn't lower the skill curve. As I said before, it changed it. We moved to a healer model where keeping up your GCD on damage and maximizing your OGCD useage to cover all required healing is where the skill shifted too which is more challenging than what we had before.

Obviously this created it's own issues. Where our GCD's are too simple, even though our OGCD gameplay as expanded significantly, but that doesn't vhange that the way our GCD and OGCD's work under a 1.5s cast is simply a better designed game that did not remove difficulty.

[Supersnow845]

It didn't lower the skill curve. As I said before, it changed it. We moved to a healer model where keeping up your GCD on damage and maximizing your OGCD useage to cover all required healing is where the skill shifted too which is more challenging than what we had before.

And you haven’t remotely explained why getting free oGCD healing with infinite weave windows is in any way harder than fighting for uptime with minimal weave windows and trying to get healing out around your limited windows

Saying “oh we oGCD heal more so it’s harder” is just a nothing statement, pressing kerechole to delete the raidwide once every 10 dosis is not remotely comparable to holding enough aetherflow to both be able to open a window to weave using ruin 2 without losing damage while also considering if you have enough aetherflow to open another ruin 2 window later to move for a movement heavy mechanic or where you had no choice but to use succor as you had no other option

Healer optimisation has been squished down into ABC which isn’t even hard these days because slide casting is so easy, this isn’t “different but harder” this is just straight up easier in every way

[Zolvolt]

And you haven’t remotely explained why getting free oGCD healing with infinite weave windows is in any way harder than fighting for uptime with minimal weave windows and trying to get healing out around your limited windows

Saying “oh we oGCD heal more so it’s harder” is just a nothing statement, pressing kerechole to delete the raidwide once every 10 dosis is not remotely comparable to holding enough aetherflow to both be able to open a window to weave using ruin 2 without losing damage while also considering if you have enough aetherflow to open another ruin 2 window later to move for a movement heavy mechanic or where you had no choice but to use succor as you had no other option

Healer optimisation has been squished down into ABC which isn’t even hard these days because slide casting is so easy, this isn’t “different but harder” this is just straight up easier in every way

I already explained it. maximizing/planning out movement. Utilizing swiftcast appropriately, not dropping your dps casts, and meeting heal checks without GCD heals as much as possible.The old way was clunky and the old slide-casting was very unfriendly to players with less-than stellar ping. This is such a dumb arguement because the old way was litterally just a worse version of what we have now. It's not like things are drastically different.

[Supersnow845]

I already explained it. maximizing/planning out movement. Utilizing swiftcast appropriately, not dropping your dps casts, and meeting heal checks without GCD heals as much as possible.The old way was clunky and the old slide-casting was very unfriendly to players with less-than stellar ping. This is such a dumb arguement because the old way was litterally just a worse version of what we have now. It's not like things are drastically different.

You’ve just said “it’s harder now because it was made easier”

You can say it’s smoother and I would agree with you, but it’s not harder because what you used to have to fight for is now given for free

[Azurarok]

This was a major defining trait of SCH, allowing you to heal one target while directing your faerie to heal another simultaneously, as embrace itself, though weakened from HW to StB, was much stronger and a more important part of your kit until ShB.

You could even direct your Faerie to heal players outside of your party for e.g. FATEs, the main tank in another alliance in 24 mans, or hilariously, the NPCs in the SCH job quests that you can no longer heal with your faerie.

I figure there was even more jank to the summons' responsiveness back then because of that but it's still such a neater concept than what we have now.
I'd rather take less smoother gameplay over losing all the fun ideas they've culled from the role, though.



Also more on topic and repeating myself for the third time, there's other approaches to mobility/weaving than just making it the same as astro. We, or at least I'm not asking for Glare/Broil to go back to 2.5s and have nothing else change. DPS casters all do it their own way and I still don't see any reason why healers shouldn't.

[Amecoeur]

I don't think reverting them back to 2.5s/2.5s is a good idea. Why make them different just for the sake of difference?

It makes little sense for player experience. Weaving in between GCD makes natural gameplay and leave an oGCD slot in case we need to cast something urgent. You know like Tetragrammaton or Lustrate, or even Benediction. As the fights inevitably become harder and more complex in movements you will begin to beg for this flexibility if you play healer in any capacity.

Please advocate for changes that might be beneficial to everyone. Flavour is not reason enough to complicate things.

[Azurarok]

Flavour is the point of having different jobs at all though? Trying to execute your job and role in duties while having different kits is a layer of fun I'd like to have. I wasn't really begging for it maining WHM in 5.x, also.