Viper is feels too busy because button erognomics is awful

[Avorie]

Firstly, at the time of this posting, you have Viper at level 85. You don't have everything unlocked, so you're not really in a position to talk about how anything plays at the moment. Nobody here will take you seriously until and unless you show you understand how the job plays once you have all the skills unlocked and hotbarred properly.



I'm also using an XBox controller, and multiple players with physical disabilities who are forced to play ONLY with controller have outright come out and said you're 100% wrong on literally everything you've written. Twinfang and Twinblood should absolutely not be consolidated into Serpent's Tail, because that ruins the "wax-on, wax-off" rhythm and flow of the job when you hotbar it properly. You clearly don't understand the rhythm and flow of double-weaving oGCDs.

Viper is EXTREMELY comfortable to play on controller and the button ergonomics are totally fine. But oh look, yet another healer main coming in to try and dumb down melee DPS jobs on the altar of "accessibility" none of the melee DPS mains asked for, or want, physically-handicapped players included.

Everything you wrote is legitimately a problem of your own misunderstanding of the role. It's clear this is an issue either of your own ineptitude, and/or lack of skill with oGCD double-weaving (which melee DPS mains enjoy, but healer mains historically struggle with), not with the job itself. I expect nothing less though of a healer main trying to jump into melee DPS. Leave it to the most passive of players to complain that the most aggressive of jobs are too much for them to handle, and argue to ruin everyone else's fun for something they're not going to spend more than 5 minutes with anyway after they get what they want. It's not like we haven't dealt with this for the past 7 years, so your hot take is rather old-hat at this point.

Here are my hotbars. I'm willing to bet you don't even have the W-Cross Hotbar enabled like this.



Now go away and stop trying to ruin everyone else's fun to play control freak on the internet. Nobody wants you here.

tl;dr: git gud.

[Avorie]

If you are using R1 hotbar swaps in combat with a melee job, you're definitely playing the job incorrectly.

R1 hotbar swaps cost time that are equivalent to oGCD weaving. You should always have all of your skills available and within easy reach at all times.

It is indeed the devs' fault for not making the W-Cross Hotbar the standard default controller players see, and the game not telling you about it. But if you take time to learn melee jobs seriously, and read guides online in an effort to learn, people have been talking about it for years and it's the most commonly used controller layout by JP players. It is a gripe that the game hides it from you and that it is not the default as it should be.

Here's some reading on the WXHB: https://www.akhmorning.com/resources...configurations

For all content past level 50, the full WXHB is what you should be using for everything. The skills should flow from right to left if you hotbar things properly. On Viper, you have two of the same kinds of moves, one set for single-target moves and another set for AoEs. On my setup, I have the single-target moves on my right side. Off-cooldown moves and weaves are basically a matter of easy motions with your thumbs, either left thumb > right thumb, or things like quarter-circle motion inputs to hit them easily by just gliding your thumb across a D-Pad, or simple-taps that are easy to pull off. Buttons are in places where there's ease of access because your thumbs are already right there, and you're primarily just using your triggers to toggle icons.

When you unlock more with your Viper, including things you don't have yet and can't test out at your current level, you'll see why my setup makes sense. Everything is very simple - and mirrored - motions that make a butterfly shape when you do your rotation. It makes it not only incredibly braindead to play at a raid level (a testament to how simplified this job is), but it physically feels good to play.

Funny enough, I've had no problems R1 quick switching hotbars like hotcakes on a stove. It's a skill I say you probably have to learn.
Then again, I played EW DRK on controller and I usually play a lot of fighting games, so I'm used to
Doing weird stuff with my fingers, and that came out wrong...

[Rayne6665]

PS4 Pro controller user here. No issues with Viper skills abilities i love it being busy but noOoOoOo it has to be adjusted -___- I hope they dont gut Viper too much its my all time fave dps now for DT <_<

[Mikey_R]

I'll add another voice to the controller player with no problems.

[Battler-Ushiromiya]

Firstly, at the time of this posting, you have Viper at level 85. You don't have everything unlocked, so you're not really in a position to talk about how anything plays at the moment. Nobody here will take you seriously until and unless you show you understand how the job plays once you have all the skills unlocked and hotbarred properly.



I'm also using an XBox controller, and multiple players with physical disabilities who are forced to play ONLY with controller have outright come out and said you're 100% wrong on literally everything you've written. Twinfang and Twinblood should absolutely not be consolidated into Serpent's Tail, because that ruins the "wax-on, wax-off" rhythm and flow of the job when you hotbar it properly. You clearly don't understand the rhythm and flow of double-weaving oGCDs.

Viper is EXTREMELY comfortable to play on controller and the button ergonomics are totally fine. But oh look, yet another healer main coming in to try and dumb down melee DPS jobs on the altar of "accessibility" none of the melee DPS mains asked for, or want, physically-handicapped players included.

Everything you wrote is legitimately a problem of your own misunderstanding of the role. It's clear this is an issue either of your own ineptitude, and/or lack of skill with oGCD double-weaving (which melee DPS mains enjoy, but healer mains historically struggle with), not with the job itself. I expect nothing less though of a healer main trying to jump into melee DPS. Leave it to the most passive of players to complain that the most aggressive of jobs are too much for them to handle, and argue to ruin everyone else's fun for something they're not going to spend more than 5 minutes with anyway after they get what they want. It's not like we haven't dealt with this for the past 7 years, so your hot take is rather old-hat at this point.

Here are my hotbars. I'm willing to bet you don't even have the W-Cross Hotbar enabled like this.



Now go away and stop trying to ruin everyone else's fun to play control freak on the internet. Nobody wants you here.

WAHHHHH WAHHHHH GIRLS WILL THINK IM COOL FOR DOUBLE WEAVING

lol no they won't you weirdo

[Elkanah]

As a Viper100, Ive no issues with viper still. And I play using an Xbox Series X controller with my PC lol. But I play the same on ps5 with the ps5 controller. It gets easier to move your hotbars around once you have every ability. Took no time to find the fluid skills layout in my quick tab hotbars (1/2). Youll get there.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Controller:

I'll give an example, in order to comfortably execute the Dreadwinder combo, you need 5 buttons, so say you have Dreadwinder on your D-pad in a position that you can hit with your index finger while piloting the analog stick or reach comfortably reach with your thumb, and then assign your 4 other buttons to face buttons in way that you can comfortably hit them in a clockwise or counterclockwise movement.
Then you come to the realization that you need Serpent's Tail and not Twinfang/Twinblood in order to perform your reawakening combo so this button layout doesn't work anymore.

In order to actually make your crosshotbar efficient while also allowing you to simultaneously use your analog stick and face buttons, you need your abilities on a different crossbar than your weaponskills so that you can access them from any of your weaponskills, which then opens up a can of worms as you're constantly pressing and releasing your trigger buttons to do ogcds which quickly causes more hand fatigue than other jobs.

[

You shouldn’t be putting important combo GCDs on the D-Pad. Like you said, it restricts movement since you can’t use the analog stick to move around while also pressing the D-Pad. In every job I have leveled up, which is almost all of them. I have always been able to to keep all of my important GCDs on the face buttons. Worse case I might need to put them on the double tap trigger shortcut for more infrequently used ones like Six Sided Star on Monk. This is never a problem though, and you don’t even need to do this for Viper.

I usually save AOE buttons for the D-Pad because it’s just AOE and you will only use those in casual dungeons 99% of the time or maybe during very specific mechanics in a minority of high end bosses. You can also use R1 to switch your main hotbar 1 to an AOE hot bar too. The only time I’ve needed to this was for Dragoon (which I no longer need to after DT removed some buttons).

For oGCDs I strongly recommend controller players put their main ones they use frequently, like serpant’s tail and twinblood/fang, on the face buttons under the L2>R2, and R2>L2 expanded hotbar shortcut. I even go as far as to mirror them on either side so you don’t have to think about which order to press the triggers in and I have enough space to do this on every job. This makes a lot of sense because it means you press one trigger to do the combo GCD and then just press down the opposite trigger to get to your OGCDs.

Here is my Viper Hotbar layout. I find that this layout is very smooth for hitting the Twinblade combo while doing positionals since I have complete freedom of movement and twinfang and twinblood line up on the same button that Hunter and Swingsting coil are on which feels easy to press in succession: https://www.xivbars.com/job/VPR/5058

[AlexisLestrange]

Huh? I play Viper on keyboard and mouse and it feels absolutely fine to play. Also, this job unlocks at level 80 and we're at level 100 in the game - is there a reason to neuter a job just because the job is a little difficult? There are only two things you need to track with this job. The first is its ?/100 gauge and the second is the time left on your Noxius Gnash debuff. This job is even easier than reaper.

[KilkaKarsh]

Consolidate damaging ogcds into two skills at most, but optimally just 1. Being able consolidate them into 1 might be an oversimplification, but this allows you to feasibly do the a dreadwinder combo with just face buttons. At the very least, Serpent's tail needs to be consolidated with one of the Twin abilities so that Reawakening isn't a pain to plan around.

I'll admit that I'm terrible at melees but, let's not nerf a class because you didn't put in the time to understand it. Like fighting games, we're bad at first but with practice, we become better at them. Same thing applies here. Watch a video if you have to.

I also play on controller (exclusively) and have no issues with the hotbar. I personally enable a PC hotbar just to keep track of actions that are not present on my main cross bar.

[Rayne6665]

This job is even easier than reaper.

Reaper was stupid easy for me when it was released for Endwalker lol i always do test dummy to get the feels of the rotations before taking it to the roulettes. i never once complained about it. Once you got the hang of it, nothing to it xD