The forum has been too much negativities lately

[localareanetwork]

Just go to Twitter then. Fair bit of people there are convinced if you dislike the story it's because you hate women.

[Enjuden]

yes. what?! if someone hates the mona lisa it doesn't invalidate it sorta like if more people like it than a stick figure on a napkin it doesn't invalidate it.

you can objectively say it's harder to paint the mona lisa but you can't straight up say it's better and say its a fact.

Okay, prove a stick figure is better or equal to the Mona Lisa if you truly believe what you say.

[Musashidon]

Okay, prove a stick figure is better or equal to the Mona Lisa if you truly believe what you say.

oh easy someone made it enjoyed making and loved that they made it.

[Xylira]

everything is subjective the stardards made are made based on peoples opinions. there is no objectively correct writing.

No, there actually is. There are entire fields of study around narrative design and literature theory that discuss what makes a story well written or not.

That doesn't mean you can't still enjoy a poorly written story, but a well written story will be more impactful and generally enjoyed more for what it is.

[Malthir]

yes. what?! if someone hates the mona lisa it doesn't invalidate it sorta like if more people like it than a stick figure on a napkin it doesn't invalidate it.

you can objectively say it's harder to paint the mona lisa but you can't straight up say it's better and say its a fact.

But it's objectively bad by the standards of the industry it's in. It's a fact that it doesn't hold up to the tenants of good writing. Even in art there are universal truths, that how AI is capable of producing music that people like, because human enjoyment is a definable spectrum. I personally don't like the tropes they used and dislike the personality of Wuk, that's subjective, it's my taste, I can completely understand why some people would like loud childish characters, people have different tastes. The issues with character growth, pacing, showing not telling etc, however objective truths in the paradigm of creative writing.

[Boblawblah]

No, there actually are. There are entire fields of study around narrative design and literature theory that discuss what makes a story well written or not.

That doesn't mean you can't still enjoy a poorly written story, but a well written story will be more impactful and generally enjoyed more for what it is.

And those theories have been proven scientifically to create objectively "good" stories?

[aquarys]

Yes, there is a problem with the forums when legit 80% of the open topics are people complaining.

Edit: And I don't think Dawntrail is as bad as people say it is. It's only here on the forums (or maybe on Twitter, but I don't use Twitter) where people are complaining this much. I am apart of multiple FFXIV Discord servers, and I never ever hear as much negativity about the expac as I see here on the forums. In addition, most people I speak to in the actual game seem to like the expac.

[Musashidon]

The issues with character growth, pacing, showing not telling etc, however objective truths in the paradigm of creative writing.

every bit here is still subjective how much character growth is the correct amount? how much pacing is the correct amount? how much showing? you keep saying this is objective but it's still entirely subjective if they did the right amount.

No, there actually is. There are entire fields of study around narrative design and literature theory that discuss what makes a story well written or not.

That doesn't mean you can't still enjoy a poorly written story, but a well written story will be more impactful and generally enjoyed more for what it is.

so there is no well written stories at all that flopped and didn't do well? sorta like there are no poorly written stories that did well? in the end no matter what writting being good or bad is opinionated. you can say something sold well or is a classic it is what you are taught as a base in school but they are not some set in fact as what you have to do to have a good story.

[Lyndina]

I think its a good sign that there is "negativity". People express their concerns about the game some of us play 10 years or longer and we want to continue having fun in it. I really was at a brakepoint after that mess of the Msq, which has (for me) the most pull factor into ff14. If i hadnt payed for a 6 month sub right before DT came out i would have quitted for good. Theres no Use sticking around in a game that you dont like anymore. But in the end the fun with my guildmates, or the people i do roleplay with kept me here. Did the first trial in Savage today and had so much fun in it...that was the real spirit of this game. The community. However...cant guarantee if i stick if Wookie is forced at me in the coming story bits.

[aquarys]

I think its a good sign that there is "negativity". People express their concerns about the game some of us play 10 years or longer and we want to continue having fun in it. I really was at a brakepoint after that mess of the Msq, which has (for me) the most pull factor into ff14. If i hadnt payed for a 6 month sub right before DT came out i would have quitted for good. Theres no Use sticking around in a game that you dont like anymore. But in the end the fun with my guildmates, or the people i do roleplay with kept me here. Did the first trial in Savage today and had so much fun in it...that was the real spirit of this game. The community. However...cant guarantee if i stick if Wookie is forced at me in the coming story bits.

That's fine that people have their own opinions. But there are some people who legitimately like the expansion's story, and when people say that the expac is objectively bad, it's dismissive to the fact that some stories just don't appeal to certain people. Each expansion for FFXIV has its own theme and direction, and they cannot please everyone.

Edit: What would be more constructive is if people said "to me, this character doesn't appeal to me in this way"... etc. instead of saying "this character is written in an actually objectively bad way".