On the Removal of Positionals

[Galvuu]

Removing them allows more players to enjoy the jobs without having to worry about where they're standing to hit optimal damage and can focus on the mechanics of the boss fights.

I cannot express how much I detest this sentiment, and how much it has poisoned XIV job design over the years.
Why do you enjoy a job less if you miss 200 potency per minute? Why does this minuscule (literally minuscule, like 1%) dps loss impair your enjoyment?
Do people not realize how insane this sounds?
"I like working out, but I can't enjoy it because I don't lift like as much as Jesus Olivares."
People don't enjoy the job gameplay, at least not in a vacuum- no, they enjoy the feeling they're using a job to 100%, but without the ability or determination to actually do it. So, instead, every job must be sanded down to appease the lowest common denominator.
We can't have good players and great players, we cannot have depth in jobs because if there's any barrier of entry, or difficulty in execution, or just any attrition at all, then people won't enjoy it because we're not all doing the same damage or something.
This makes no sense- and there are already jobs where the skill ceiling is underground, to the point an auto-rotation bot can play as well as any human in the majority of content (I'm looking at you SMN).

I don't mean to single you out, but this sentiment, that I see posted frequently in many channels, drives me insane.
I'm not a good tank. I play it sporadically, but I don't put in any effort. I do it for fun. Tanks don't need to be dumbed down so an idiot like me can perform as well as a career tank. It's fine that there are optimizations or depth that I can't reach by practicing 15 minutes, or playing hyper casually. I just enjoy memeing on tank sometimes, I'm not even thinking about my damage being lower than orange percentiles, or that my gcd weaving isn't optimal. If you truly enjoy what you're doing, why does missing two or four positionals a minute for 40 potency each matter? Not criting for a nuke in burst results in a bigger damage loss- does that bother you too?!

[Eudyptes]

I cannot express how much I detest this sentiment, and how much it has poisoned XIV job design over the years.
Why do you enjoy a job less if you miss 200 potency per minute? Why does this minuscule (literally minuscule, like 1%) dps loss impair your enjoyment?
Do people not realize how insane this sounds?

I think the issue for most people is because it feels like a punishment for missing them rather than a reward for hitting them. This is actually a part of why I think positionals are a dumb, outdated mechanic that need to go as well.

To preface, I cut my teeth on MNK back in ARR, and have been primarily a melee dps main ever since, bouncing back and fourth between them. So landing positionals is so ingrained into me I often catch myself doing them on bosses that don't even require them. So this isn't coming from a "skill issue, I can't do them" perspective.

In a vacuum, positionals are stupidly easy. Let's face it, here isn't really much challenge in pushing to the left and right right every few seconds to hit them (esp nowadays when we have only a few to hit). That said, in that same vacuum why not keep them for some bonus damage on something that's not all that hard to do, right? I get where that perspective comes from. But we don't live in a vacuum. The reality is that bosses do not stand still, and no matter how good you are, how fast you are with TN, etc, you WILL miss positionals for something that is out of your control, as well as just doing mechanics properly. This just feels bad to get punished for, especially if you were doing the actual right thing like dodging an AE. On top of that DPS have natural punishments and it's why they are typically designed the way they are. This is something that for the most part extends to all games that have similar roles they are trying to keep things balanced. Melee need to be in melee range in order to hit things. Anytime something forces them out of that range their dps stops. Ranged classes simply do not have this issue. So they are naturally balanced via cast times and/or "ranged tax". So to adding further punishment on top of that is just salt in the wound if bosses are more than just glorified target dummies (which to be fair they kinda were glorified target dummies in ARR).

As for viper, I don't think it's too busy specifically. I have 100 viper, monk, ninja, and reaper right now, and with the exception of reaper they all feel pretty equally "busy". Ninja probably most of all tbh. I'm guessing it was mainly in reference to viper having ability positionals as well as combo positionals while the other classes have one or the other? Idk, I don't think it really needs any changes but I'm always happy to see positionals removed.

[Atmaweapon510]

The problem with positionals is that they aren't really perceptible. I want immediate feedback that tells me that I hit one rather than wondering if I landed it if the positioning was kind of fuzzy. Otherwise it sort of blurs into the background and you're sort of wondering if it matters at all that you're doing things correctly. If they added some small bonus in addition to damage, positionals would be more appreciated in a kit.

[mallleable]

I don't like postionals, but I would rather they be replaced with potentially better job/role mechanics than just be removed. Melee DPS would definitely be missing something if postionals were just removed with out replacing them with something else.

[Ramiee]

I'm on team give people options. Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.
Locking everyone into the same thing never works, if cleric stance wasn't standard healers wouldn't of been lobotomised. Same with stance dancing and tanks.

[Aco505]

Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.

There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.

[Ramiee]

There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.

I meant there being a melee dps job. Honestly for reaper just remove all positionals and make it the basic melee job for people who just want to press buttons.
If I had my way we would have that and current monk would have like 5 positionals.

[Valence]

I'm on team give people options. Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.
Locking everyone into the same thing never works, if cleric stance wasn't standard healers wouldn't of been lobotomised. Same with stance dancing and tanks.

Last time I suggested the addition of new melee DPS jobs without positionals (emphasis on new, I don't want old ones to alienate their fans by deleting their positionals), I got dogpiled by every melee and their mothers because it was somehow a direct attack onto "the identity of the melee DPS role".

There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.

Tanks and healers are not DPS at all. It's a whole different type of role and gameplay.

[Aco505]

Tanks and healers are not DPS at all. It's a whole different type of role and gameplay.

The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.

[Valence]

The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.

The only intrinsic element to melee is being limited by range... Much like casting is to... casters.

Positionals are not intrinsic to melee whatsoever. They could even be added to other roles technically. Else I could say that procs are intrinsic to ranged physical just because rphys used to only have proc jobs, and yet, they're not.

There is no irreducible point of correlation between melee and positionals, unlike for melee range for melees and cast times for casters.