Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
It is players blaming the game for their own lack of ability rather than looking to improve themselves.

However, what other group of people are there? The ones that just don't like them for no reason? Should we listen to them? I don't like Dancer, should you listen to me about changing Dancer? Should be obvious, that is an absurd notion. However, you don't try and say what other categories I might have missed? If I am missing something or someone, I need to know. They might have something to say, but we also need to keep in mind what jobs they do and don't play. No point listening to someone who has no intention of playing a melee at all.
So here's the thing, anyone who says positionals aren't fun are equally as valid as those who say it is fun. On this point it's moot. So when asking whether they should exist it comes down to more logical reasoning. I've mentioned before in this thread that it's really not a skill issue anymore. Any melee who is good enough to get the rotation down is more than good enough to hit positionals. However, no matter how good you are there are many mechanics that make it actually impossible to hit positionals, and many more than make it possible but not fully predictable to hit them (i.e. you know a boss is about to turn to cast something, but not which specific direction). I also have to wonder how often while bosses/you are moving and you are cutting it close how often latency causes the snapshot to be not quite on the proper position. TN isn't this almighty savior skill either. It helps, but it's still limited. I mean look at the 3rd raid boss right now. He spends more time with half his hit box out of bounds for longer than you can TN (and as far as I could tell he doesn't have the new ring, though the 4th boss does when doing a similar thing). Not to mention all the other general movement mechanics. I actually really feel like he highlights the issues with positionals very well.

To me it's just nonsense to lose damage for no reason when by rights you shouldn't. Or worse, because you are otherwise doing the fight properly. I've yet to hear a good reason why that should even be the case. the "best" argument is that "you don't lose that much so it's not that big a deal". Ok, well then if it's not that much it shouldn't be that big a deal if it's gone either. But I also think that many people who want positionals want much of the older versions and mechanics as well, which do make it a big deal, and that bigger dps loss is why SE has been redicing and removing them periodically, so that melee can keep up in more mechanically advanced fights.