On the Removal of Positionals

[Magikazam]

The only issue I see is that viper does gains a lots of potency from hitting positional and you do need to hit them often. While fight knowledge and True north can somewhat fix this issues, they could just up the base skill damage and reduce positional extra potency. Also the class can be quite puzzling when you first unlock it, but that because IMO the viper tutorial you get in your job quest is just kinda bad, especially compared to Pictomancer one. Viper tutorial don't exactly tell you how to properly use it left/right side combo and that make it look way harder than it is actually to play. Making a better tutorial to make the job less confusing at first would help it a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I think people who are afraid of positional should just play other jobs if they really don't want to deal with it. Not every class should be for everyone IMO.

[W00by]

The problem is, I'm not sure how much they could reduce the additional skill potency and retain meaningful skill expression on Viper. With the exception of Dragoon and Samurai, all melee lose 60 potency when they miss a positional -- Dragoon on the other hand loses 40 and Samurai loses 50. Viper loses 60 on the Hinds/Flanks combo enders and 50 on the Dreadwinder Coils, so it's in line with other melee DPS as far as how much it loses when it fails to hit a positional.

Now, given Viper's personal haste buff, Swiftscaled, you could argue that it's performing positionals more frequently than a job like Dragoon or Reaper, but Ninja's Aeolian Edge still loses 60 potency, as does Monk's Snap Punch, and those abilities are on recast times similar to Viper's, and no one is asking for a reduction of positional reliance on Ninja or Monk because they have had time to get used to it (that is, assuming they aren't for the removal of positionals entirely).

That's what's so frustrating about the Viper situation; some players new to the job (and that means everyone right now) are trying to change Viper into something it is not because they want to play the new flashy job without feeling like they aren't performing well, without any consideration for its longevity as a job. Positionals have survived six expansions because they are integral to melee DPS engagement, and Viper's should not be done away with like a candle in the wind because some players haven't completely mastered the job in a week. As the OP suggests, Viper is completely in line with all 5 other melees and should remain as it is if they want the job to be fun not just right now, but in one year, or two, or five.

[Kaedys]

The only issue I see is that viper does gains a lots of potency from hitting positional and you do need to hit them often. While fight knowledge and True north can somewhat fix this issues, they could just up the base skill damage and reduce positional extra potency. Also the class can be quite puzzling when you first unlock it, but that because IMO the viper tutorial you get in your job quest is just kinda bad, especially compared to Pictomancer one. Viper tutorial don't exactly tell you how to properly use it left/right side combo and that make it look way harder than it is actually to play. Making a better tutorial to make the job less confusing at first would help it a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I think people who are afraid of positional should just play other jobs if they really don't want to deal with it. Not every class should be for everyone IMO.

Let's say you just permanently stay in one of the cones. Maybe you move around, but let's assume for the sake of argument that you ignore positionals and just hit half of them entirely by accident (ie. what would happen if you just stood on the boss's butt the whole time). Per 2 minutes, Viper gets 6 positionals from Dreadwinder and, iirc from another thread, 8 from standard combos. The Dread ones gain 50p from positional, and the combo ones gain 60p. If you miss, on average, half of those, that's a total of 390p per minute, which is effectively the same loss as dropping 1.5 GCDs during that 2 minute period (or, equivalently, dropping 1.5 of your Death Rattle or Legacy follow-ups). Is it a loss? Sure, but it's not catastrophic.