On the Removal of Positionals

[Ramiee]

I'm on team give people options. Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.
Locking everyone into the same thing never works, if cleric stance wasn't standard healers wouldn't of been lobotomised. Same with stance dancing and tanks.

[Aco505]

Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.

There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.

[Ramiee]

There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.

I meant there being a melee dps job. Honestly for reaper just remove all positionals and make it the basic melee job for people who just want to press buttons.
If I had my way we would have that and current monk would have like 5 positionals.

[Valence]

I'm on team give people options. Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.
Locking everyone into the same thing never works, if cleric stance wasn't standard healers wouldn't of been lobotomised. Same with stance dancing and tanks.

Last time I suggested the addition of new melee DPS jobs without positionals (emphasis on new, I don't want old ones to alienate their fans by deleting their positionals), I got dogpiled by every melee and their mothers because it was somehow a direct attack onto "the identity of the melee DPS role".

There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.

Tanks and healers are not DPS at all. It's a whole different type of role and gameplay.

[Aco505]

Tanks and healers are not DPS at all. It's a whole different type of role and gameplay.

The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.

[Ramiee]

The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.

I think it would be more like not having to be short ranged is more of a comparative with no cast times. To me positionals is like dots Vs no dots on casters, most casters should have dots but there are plenty of fun caster jobs in MMOs without dots too as well as some that are only dots.
I do think I would find a melee job with no positionals very boring though and I don't know what other management could replace it outside maintaining a bunch of personal buffs or something.

[Eudyptes]

Last time I suggested the addition of new melee DPS jobs without positionals (emphasis on new, I don't want old ones to alienate their fans by deleting their positionals), I got dogpiled by every melee and their mothers because it was somehow a direct attack onto "the identity of the melee DPS role".

Not gonna lie, I think the people who like positionals are just a loud minority. if they got rid of all of them tomorrow you'd see a huge stink about it but the actual amount of melee players would remain largely unchanged. Kinda like how that healer's strike went.

The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.

No is isn't. Name one other game with melee that has positionals. Cause I can name many with cast times for casters. The identity of melee is being up close and personal. That's it. The built in difficulty is needing to work around enemies moving and AE's around them.

Also I'm pretty sure the reason smn is such a contentious job is because it effectively is just the same 4 or 5 buttons over and over, not cause cast times are removed.

[Aco505]

No is isn't. Name one other game with melee that has positionals.

In this game it is, because all melee DPS job have them, including the new one released mere days ago.

But WoW has also had positionals: Backstab, Ambush, Shred, Ravage, Pounce, avoiding the front and sometimes back of bosses to not get parried or tail smashed, etc.

[Valence]

The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.

The only intrinsic element to melee is being limited by range... Much like casting is to... casters.

Positionals are not intrinsic to melee whatsoever. They could even be added to other roles technically. Else I could say that procs are intrinsic to ranged physical just because rphys used to only have proc jobs, and yet, they're not.

There is no irreducible point of correlation between melee and positionals, unlike for melee range for melees and cast times for casters.

[Post]

Except they've never put positionals on ranged/casters (other than occasional boss mechs) and there are melee with casts and p. Ranged that had casts and casters with very few casts.

Like, sure, you're being technically correct, but I feel the point of what Aco505 is pretty clear.

Positionals have usually been a melee role thing in this game. Arguably tanks dealt with it before with old Raw Intuition and before they could block and dodge from the rear, but the design normalcy is there.