Ninja, do we need it?

[Visch]

Regardless of how its implimented if Ninja CAN tank, it will BECOME a tank. Theres no way around if. SE need to make it unique enough to make people realise it is better at something else, but if it can tank people will use it as a tank.

What makes you think people would use it as a tank over a GLA or PUG if it was better at DDing? Just because it was in XI? Why would you want to use something worse than something else if you had the choice?

[OgreBattle]

Ninjas were made famous by Japanese media, from ancient to modern pop culture. Ninjas have been in all kinds of games using all kinds of weapons and most of the time being one-man armies that fight everything head on.

So tell me, why is a Ninja using shadow images to entrap his foes in a deadly cage of illusions to protect his comrades "un-ninjalike"?
I think we need to get out of a western Dungeons & Dragons mindset and realize that Final Fantasy is a Japanese game, their image of the ninja is a lot more flexible.


Look at the FFXI ninja's two hour ability, exploding. That's a way weirder ability to have than shadow images, but still draws on Japanese ninja imagery.
What FFXI Ninja emphasized though was 'duty' and 'sacrifice'. The storyline of the Ninja quest such a tale. The Ninja's 2 hour is one where he sacrifices his own life for the good of the party. Protecting information, protecting one's loyalty, protecting one's comrades, the FFXI ninja is a protector who gives his life for duty. If you want a backstabbing coward, play a thief.


I'd rather have FFXIV stray away from strict party roles though. Final Fantasy games have never been about that. Playing through FF1 to X, characters had relative strengths and weaknesses, yes, but it wasn't so cripplingly specialized as XI was, it's a western RPG mechanic that is uneeded in Final Fantasy.

That's XI's problem, I hope they can get rid of it as XIV is further developed.
The ideal for me is something Monster Hunter or Phantasy Star like, you can form a party of any combination and everyone can function fine.

I do not want them to tank, they should be like their classical FF interpretations.

Edge can be built up to tank in the latest FF4, but that game doesn't really use party roles as strongly as western MMOs have popularized them
Shadow from FF6 can shadow tank VERY WELL, he is pretty much untouchable. This is doable in the SNES game
in FF13, though not a ninja, Lightning turns into an evasion tank in her strongest builds.

Again, I see the problem isn't "omg ninja is tanking" but FFXI's PUNISHING you for doing anything other than strictly fulfilling one role in a set party.

[viion]

What makes you think people would use it as a tank over a GLA or PUG if it was better at DDing? Just because it was in XI? Why would you want to use something worse than something else if you had the choice?

Dude lol reread what I said, I will put it out for you since im nice "SE need to make it unique enough to make people realise [SIZE="5"]it is better at something else[/SIZE]"

Did ya get it now? :P

So: if its rubbish at everything but Tanking and just as good at tanking as other classes, IT WILL BE A TANK. The PLAYERS define the class, not SE, SE Hope you use it a specific way but ultimately it comes down to the PLAYERS. If the players see ninja as a good Tank, it will be a tank. Thats how it evolved in XI. It wasnt a good DD and tools sucked ass. But if they make it good at other things non tank related then people will use it as the best it can be.

[Visch]

Dude lol reread what I said.

Regardless of how its implimented if Ninja CAN tank, it will BECOME a tank. Theres no way around if.

but if it can tank people will use it as a tank.

You said if it can tank, it will tank, twice. Just because something can tank doesn't mean it is automatically bad at DDing, does it?

if its rubbish at everything but Tanking and just as good at tanking as other classes

This makes a little more sense, and yes I agree with you.

[viion]

You said if it can tank, it will tank, twice. Just because something can tank doesn't mean it is automatically bad at DDing, does it?

This makes a little more sense, and yes I agree with you.

Nor does it automatically make it a good DD. You were the one who brought up DD and I had to extend on your response, I was merely talking about tanking. Mrd can tank and is provided with various hate skills and people use it, but its not ment to be a tank class, but that might also be because every mob is stupidly easy and 1 mage is enough to heal a character on just about every mob. Might not be the case come HNM day.