To the devs, from a Viper fan, with love...

[Arkrayven]

people who voiced these concerns are the reason the changes were announced in the first place. There is clearly two sides

That's another thing about this: nobody, here or on JP forums/Twitter, seems to be aware of who raised these concerns in the first place. The changes seem to have been announced from nowhere, and few to no threads have been created supporting the changes -- they are all negative reactions. So if you could link to any thread you made, or saw, asking for changes after the release of Viper but prior to the announced changes, I'd be incredibly curious to see it.

[Wolf_Heartnet]

I think why you're having a miscommunication with people here -- or the true tell that you're telling, whichever is which -- is that nothing you said has anything to do with the announced changes.

I actually have few to no issues with your analysis, but I do take issue with your conclusion. The fact wall bosses exist does not, in my opinion, invalidate the fact that positionals exist at all. Furthermore, their proposed change of reducing, not removing all of, the Viper positionals means that you won't get what you want anyway.

Secondly, compacting the AoE to one line/ it functioning differently in PvP is more due to a difference in those game modes.
would work better if you didn't have three buffs to apply, but I can see why you'd want it, although I doubt it's doable. Again though, this has nothing to do either with positionals or the job's "busyness", which is the purpose of the announced changes.

Thirdly, a clearer job gauge (or honestly, the ability to hide it while leaving Rattling Coils up) is a completely fair ask. You are both correct in that it indicates whether to hit "left" or "right" but that the final step itself doesn't have an indicator. There's no reason it can't.

However, you said that you think the announced changes are a "step in the right direction", yet nothing you said has anything to do with the jobs "busyness", and as I covered in the first paragraph, the removal of one positional hardy equates to the removal of all positionals in the game. For this reason it's still hard to tell whether or not you're just trolling, and you'll probably continue to be taken as such. But again, maybe that's your goal to begin with.

For the second point, I am not entirely sure what is in squares ability or what is not since I am not a developer and do not know the limitations caused by the spaghetti code. All I know is that its done for pvp so I assume that its possible. Whether it truly is or isnt is unknown to me.

I disagree with positionals not equating to business as to me they do.

Respectfully, I disagree. You have the right to an opposing opinion, but I do not share it. Ultimately, I think if more people are saying they like the class as is (and it certainly seems that way, based on the threads im seeing across the last couple of days) it seems kind of mean spirited to cheer for gutting it even more than was already announced, and do so in every thread on the subject.

Thanks for voicing your concern. I apologize that it seems that way to you but I feel that it's important to voice my opinions just as you feel that its important to voice yours as we both wish opposing things. I have no malicious intent but as I've mentioned in other threads, people who voiced these concerns are the reason the changes were announced in the first place. There is clearly two sides and no real reliable statistic to gauge where people stand as feedback for one side usually comes after an announced change while the opposing side is usually quiet until they are the ones dealing with changes they don't want.

don't have positional requirements.

Im aware hence why I said

Even if all positionals work on a wall boss, I want to be able to get in that position as that is how the rotation should be done

Thanks for trying to clear that up though.
My apologies. It seems like a few people get that troll feel for some reason but I am genuine about my response. To my understanding, trolling is done to infuriate people but I have been as respectful as possible and trying not to word things disrespectfully to not cause anger because when people get angry, they become stubborn and become closed to suggestions and thoughts of others which defeats the purpose of using this forum.

It's hard to gauge what square enix means when they don't make clear what the changes are. I am for the reduction of positionals but you asked "what further changes" I would like to see and I would like to see the complete removal of positionals.

[Chasingstars]

That's another thing about this: nobody, here or on JP forums/Twitter, seems to be aware of who raised these concerns in the first place. The changes seem to have been announced from nowhere, and few to no threads have been created supporting the changes -- they are all negative reactions. So if you could link to any thread you made, or saw, asking for changes after the release of Viper but prior to the announced changes, I'd be incredibly curious to see it.

Maybe it was some streamer? That or whoever was filing a complaint was doing so through the "leave a suggestion" when directly contacting the devs so it would be harder to trace.

[Wolf_Heartnet]

That's another thing about this: nobody, here or on JP forums/Twitter, seems to be aware of who raised these concerns in the first place. The changes seem to have been announced from nowhere, and few to no threads have been created supporting the changes -- they are all negative reactions. So if you could link to any thread you made, or saw, asking for changes after the release of Viper but prior to the announced changes, I'd be incredibly curious to see it.

My source is https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6321a515d36909 which I took at face value.

we’ve received feedback pertaining to the busyness of their skill rotation. To that end, we’re planning several improvements,

[Arkrayven]

My source is https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6321a515d36909 which I took at face value.

Which is not the question I asked; thereby, you confirm that you yourself have seen no actual call for change.

Furthermore, the removal of all positionals from all melee jobs is outside of the scope of Viper changes. It's also not based in any logic in the first place to argue they should get removed, solely because some wall bosses exist. To take your argument one step further, it's like saying that because some bosses favors ranged DPS or casters (see: Eden raids), all melee should be removed.

[Wolf_Heartnet]

Which is not the question I asked; thereby, you confirm that you yourself have seen no actual call for change.

Furthermore, the removal of all positionals from all melee jobs is outside of the scope of Viper changes. It's also not based in any logic in the first place to argue they should get removed, solely because some wall bosses exist. To take your argument one step further, it's like saying that because some bosses favors ranged DPS or casters (see: Eden raids), all melee should be removed.

I apologize, I have taken squares response as a representation of said people. I have went to look for where this feedback is coming from since I assume it was from the japanese forum. I had some trouble since google translate wasnt letting me access some pages. I found a thread and realized that the early comments were before launch and the criticism started sprouting later down the thread. I believe and am not 100% positive that this is the source where square is taking the feedback. Here is the link.
Translate: https://forum-square--enix-com.trans...n&_x_tr_pto=sc
Raw link https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...82%B9%E3%83%AC

I dont fully understand your 2nd poiint you're making here. I believe the logic is sound. If you have positionals as part of your rotation, then all bosses should allow u to get in the correct positions. If it doesnt then it seems pointless to add in the first place. It's not one boss as a special case, theres many bosses like that. Both in easy and hard content.

[wereotter]

I apologize, I have taken squares response as a representation of said people. I have went to look for where this feedback is coming from since I assume it was from the japanese forum. I had some trouble since google translate wasnt letting me access some pages. I found a thread and realized that the early comments were before launch and the criticism started sprouting later down the thread. I believe and am not 100% positive that this is the source where square is taking the feedback. Here is the link.
Translate: https://forum-square--enix-com.trans...n&_x_tr_pto=sc
Raw link https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...82%B9%E3%83%AC

I dont fully understand your 2nd poiint you're making here. I believe the logic is sound. If you have positionals as part of your rotation, then all bosses should allow u to get in the correct positions. If it doesnt then it seems pointless to add in the first place. It's not one boss as a special case, theres many bosses like that. Both in easy and hard content.

While this might be what they're going off of (and this isn't meant to argue your position, though I'll say for the record, I'm also in the camp of leaving viper as it is) the JP player base commenting here seems to be encountering the same steep learning curve everyone I've talked to about the job did on day 1 as well as are voicing the stumbling block that the same hot bar spot changes between being a button you press sometimes one the rear of a boss and sometimes on the flank. But it doesn't look like they're asking for those position requirements to be removed, but instead possibly for the buttons to be adjusted in such a way that buttons remain consistent as to if you press them for rear or flank.

As to your other comment... I'll say this as someone who was maining monk since well before truth north existed in the game. It's better to take a potency loss and keep your GDC rolling than to get frustrated because you lost potency due to not hitting from the correct position. This was something monks had to do with some regularity in the Alexander raids as if you didn't keep your attacks going, you'd lose your greased lightning buffs. Sometimes you simply can't hit the position. Sometimes its because a tank is holding a boss with just its nose sticking outside of the poo puddles, sometimes its because they're tanking them in the wall, sometimes its because of where you have to stand to do a mechanic (P11S had this problem for melee jobs) So you take the hit to your potency when the game forces it on you and don't stress it. Only saying this because it sounds like you're having the mentality that if you can't perform the job optimally then the job shouldn't make the ask of you at all, when in reality you simply do your best, and if the game forces you to not be able to do that 100% of the time, you do what you can the rest of it.

[machete115]

I hope as well they don't go through with the changes. True North after Dreadwinder covers 3 positionals which is plenty of time to adjust for the next one. The class was designed to be fast pace, don't go back on it being fast pace.