The Negative Impact of Poor Character Writing on the Quality of Dawntrail's MSQ

[Archaeothyris]

"Please feel something!!"

This was exactly how I felt. It felt like such a betrayal, honestly. I love Vrtra, he was so hot and cool and amazing for doing what he did, but riding on the coattails of the actually good storytelling legacy that FFXIV has accumulated for years for such an obvious goosebumps-farming moment? Genuinely, piss off... I honestly felt the same way about the last MSQ dungeon too. It's as if the writers took what made Amaurot and Dead Ends so special, made a copy of it, spent hours to make it so the likelihood of you feeling any sort of way towards the people in the dungeon vision was gone, and then thought it was a slamdunk of a dungeon. Like, no. The reason why Amaurot and Dead Ends are so, so incredibly special (to me at least) is because there was proper build up to CARE what was going on in those dungeons.

Amaurot would not have felt like anything if we hadn't spent most of the MSQ listening to Emet-Selch and learning about the Ancients, their civilization and their tragedy from a man who we knew we could never avoid conflict with. It was a partnership doomed from the start, but that's a big part of why the journey felt so meaningful. He saw his old friend in us, and in him we saw a glimpse of what we used to be. We cannot get those times back, we do not want to get those times back, but we as a traveler have almost an obligation to hear about this tragedy that shaped the world. Instead, Sphene is automatically our friend the moment we meet her, and the big twist with her isn't even a twist because she's been shady in cutscenes from the get-go. Plus there wasn't enough time to properly care about her.

Dead Ends would not have felt like anything if we hadn't gone through... well, everything. It wasn't even just about the Meteia and their despair, it wasn't just about the Ancients who we spent the majority of ShB and a big chunk of EW learning about, it was about the entire world. It was about everyone we know and have known, ever. It was about even creatures we never got to know, who experienced tragedy and died. Dead Ends is just, so much. Instead with Alexandria, we spend what feels like 6 hours of MSQ yo-yoing between "oh well we should learn about these people and be compassionate" vs "actually no they don't matter because they aren't real". It feels so... empty. I do not care for these characters. I've been told several times to care, but whenever the game attempts to make me care, I remember it just a second ago making it so that I simply cannot care. Making an entire final flashback dungeon based on a society I have such a complete void of any emotion for just because it worked so well two previous times, without even understanding what made them work so well in the first place? I can't believe someone actually decided this was a good idea.

[koko-on-da-forumz]

I still firmly believe the characters have a lot to offer in the hands of a competent writer.

The scions have never had anything to offer, not since 2.0.

Ask anyone about Y'shtola's personality, and nine times out of ten you'll get a reference to something that happened in the story six or seven years ago in Stormblood's patches.

G'raha joined the scions and immediately turned into a cardboard cutout of a wet cat (in more ways than one).

Part of that is just that FFXIV's structure is fundamentally not good for telling stories about protagonists because they have to rely on the main character being a silent demi-god with no actual control over themself. Wuk Lamat was their attempt at changing that dynamic, and they flubbed it immediately. The closest thing we have to proper 'good guy' development is Zenos, acting as our anti-hero deuteragonist in Endwalker,

[aquarys]

Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to add my two-cents to the OP's post.

I 100% agree with what the OP says about the characters falling flat in DT and a lot of decision-making during the course of the story seems irrational (such as Wuk Lamat trusting Sphene 100% off the bat, and that the Turali people who were sucked into Heritage Found seeming to be happily assimilated into their dystopian culture, and Erenville not even batting an eye at this terrible thing.)

But I also want to bring attention to the fact that the "bones" of the story do, indeed make sense. It's Wuk Lamat's blind naivety that warps the Scion's behavior so drastically. When I ran Origenics, I paid special attention to the Scions' dialogue since I used them as a Trust. They were very vocal about the absolute horrors that the Alexandrian society was built on; it's just Wuk Lamat who just doesn't seem to care because she wants to see value in even the most vile of societal cultures. Because the story is Wuk Lamat's, and only her's, she flattens out the entire "arc" of the story to be one about the power of friendship, instead of digging into the very obvious (and imo cleverly done) subtle themes that are hinted at during the course of the story.

I honestly believe that someone took the bones of a story that explored what it means to be a good leader (Wuk Lamat who actually puts the well fare of all societies first and foremost, and Sphene who is unwilling to sacrifice her people's happiness for the good of other societies) and air brushed it so badly that it takes incredible effort to get any real meaning out of the story.

[Voidmage]

The scions have never had anything to offer, not since 2.0.

Ask anyone about Y'shtola's personality, and nine times out of ten you'll get a reference to something that happened in the story six or seven years ago in Stormblood's patches.

G'raha joined the scions and immediately turned into a cardboard cutout of a wet cat (in more ways than one).

Part of that is just that FFXIV's structure is fundamentally not good for telling stories about protagonists because they have to rely on the main character being a silent demi-god with no actual control over themself. Wuk Lamat was their attempt at changing that dynamic, and they flubbed it immediately. The closest thing we have to proper 'good guy' development is Zenos, acting as our anti-hero deuteragonist in Endwalker,

I think a whole new team of Wuk Lamat, Koana, Krile, Bakool JaJa (after some time), Otis and Sphene would have been interesting. Throw in G'raha too and Estinien if we need some scions.
That could have been a good dynamic. some kind of "new scions" if only just for Dawntrail and would have captured really nice the sense of "new adventure".
They could have had a good dynamic and the finale would have been far more deep if Sphene and Otis were with us for a longer time.
Instead we got the Wuk show season 1 to 100.
just imagine each character having their own spotlight and us as the veteran adventure.

Dawntrail might as well be evidence that they don't know what to do with the Scions anymore. Especially those with their personal arcs resolved (Thancred, Urianger, Alphinaud, arguably Estinien)

Even disregarding the poor characterization direction in Dawntrail as a whole Urianger, for example, is completely off-character taking some mercenary job just because Thancred invited him. Nothing in how he was written as a character since his introduction in 1.X made him come across as someone who'd take the job as someone's bodyguard just for sake of it.

Thancred could still work in my opinion if they used his personality more. You know, the charmer like we saw in the TRAILER.
Urianger needs a break. he had great character development but he is at a dead end right now.
Y'sthola is as deep as a puddle like always.
The twins didn't have a story since Garlemald and even that is a reach to call it a story because they do absolutely nothing.

I can't agree with this video when the person says she likes Bakool Ja Ja's character development and argues that the Scions shouldn't be in the story anymore.
Bakool Ja Ja's "development" was his personality completely changing from one scene to the other suddenly without any buildup, and never being punished or seeing consequences of his actions.

And the Scions being part of the story isn't the problem - the problem is that the current writer just can't write them in there in a meaningful way. It makes me sad that some people will keep arguing against the scions using Dawntrail as "evidence", while I still firmly believe the characters have a lot to offer in the hands of a competent writer.

It's fine to not agree with those points I understand that but what about the others?

[ReynTime]

I can't agree with this video when the person says she likes Bakool Ja Ja's character development and argues that the Scions shouldn't be in the story anymore.
Bakool Ja Ja's "development" was his personality completely changing from one scene to the other suddenly without any buildup, and never being punished or seeing consequences of his actions.

And the Scions being part of the story isn't the problem - the problem is that the current writer just can't write them in there in a meaningful way. It makes me sad that some people will keep arguing against the scions using Dawntrail as "evidence", while I still firmly believe the characters have a lot to offer in the hands of a competent writer.

Dawntrail might as well be evidence that they don't know what to do with the Scions anymore. Especially those with their personal arcs resolved (Thancred, Urianger, Alphinaud, arguably Estinien)

Even disregarding the poor characterization direction in Dawntrail as a whole Urianger, for example, is completely off-character taking some mercenary job just because Thancred invited him. Nothing in how he was written as a character since his introduction in 1.X made him come across as someone who'd take the job as someone's bodyguard just for sake of it.

[ZUZ]

Thank you for putting this together OP. This perfectly sums up my feelings towards the character writing for the MSQ. There is no challenge, no consequences, no backlash, no back and forth between ideas and characters. Bakool Ja Ja unleashed Valigarmanda upon Urqopacha, which could of killed many people, and he isn't punished in any way. I would of loved to have him accompany us and have him clash heads with the scions and Zoraal Ja.

I'm glad you mentioned the Graha Boat Ride Scene . I thought that was a great scene that had strong writing behind it.

I hope the character writing and quality of the MSQ improves in Post-DT

[Hallarem]

Koana got mad, it was a character moment, he was a character, I liked it. I liked most of the characters as horribly as they were used in this shonen-anime bastardization of a final fantasy story, good characters, horrible execution (Switch the writers, thanks. They have watched way too much Naruto). The Scions are basically a bunch of wet blankets that don't feel anything, spout out personal motivations, but don't really feel anything about them. Or just go "Yeah, let's fight this thing" or "Heres the solution to this thing you're searching." At least Krile got some development, but not nearly as enough and it was a blip in the end.

[koko-on-da-forumz]

I think a whole new team of Wuk Lamat, Koana, Krile, Bakool JaJa (after some time), Otis and Sphene would have been interesting. Throw in G'raha too and Estinien if we need some scions.
That could have been a good dynamic. some kind of "new scions" if only just for Dawntrail and would have captured really nice the sense of "new adventure".

I'm going to go out on a limb and sayu that this would have been terrible too. The writer can not handle writing one character well for significant screentime, much less six. Otis and Sphene are some of the worst, laziest characters to enter our presence. Bakool Jaja started as a Speed Racer tier villain and heelturned after one chitchat. Koana is more of a symbol to communicate a theme than a character. Wuk, obviously, everyone hates.

I don't understand the fan commitment to Krile. She's fine. She was always fine. She's no more interesting or less interesting than the other Scions--at least until Dawntrail where her entire backstory was rewritten to be bad tearjerk fodder rather than a suitable catharsis.

They're all bad, they've always been bad.

[ThorneDynasty]

Exactly, I was the same way, it was as irritating as could be. That song belongs to Endwalker, and here it's unfitting and completely unearned.
I'm not going to like it better because I liked Endwalker, I'm going to like it even less and be even more irritated precisely because I liked Endwalker. We're thinking feeling people who can discern these things, not dopamine bots, press a music button, get attachment.

Thinking now on it, wouldn't something from Heavensward have been far more appropriate, with this moment being us reaping the benefits of the progress we started mending the relationship between mankind and the dragons?

As much as the dragons showing up killed any stakes when it came to Zoraal Ja actually being a threat, I don't think it's a bad idea to have Vrtra come to the rescue. You know rather than expect the player to have simply forgot he exists and we have a really powerful air support to call on now, so why wouldn't we? (Although it's a bit weird there was no mention at all he was swayed to help Tural because of the Scion's involvement, considering how much their word should weigh for him after we helped save his sister).

Like so many things, the idea had merit but the execution was lacking.

[Boblawblah]

I don't want a brand new team. I'd be thrilled to have the WoL on their own with a single new person for a bit, then another new person, then a small group, etc, and slowly build some COMPLETELY NEW relationships. Put the WoL in a totally new alien world where no one knows who they are. Sure the Isekai slant is cliche, but it's soo fun!