The Negative Impact of Poor Character Writing on the Quality of Dawntrail's MSQ

[LisseyCrowe]

Personally, I feel Dawntrail would've been a much better experience had they designed a proper Rite of Succession without it being a fetch quest fest and have it play out from level 90 to 100. Build up this colourful nation more and make the competition more of a clutch where Wuk Lamat actually has to grow, instead of everything happening conveniently for her cause while she's having the most basic realizations a catwoman can.

I just want to hijack this part for a bit.

One of the things I found somewhat disturbing about DT (and some people online too) is the ... significance of the Scions not just backing different Promises in that Rite, but acting so playful about competing with each other as we practically play Kingmaker.

That's not to say it's a bad pitch, in fact it's a great pitch if ... taken seriously. This is the kind of the thing that, upon learning Thancred and Urianger were in fact backing Koana, should have led to a global Scion "Wtf are we doing" alarm, potentially leading to a minor schism to be developed as opinions clash and diverge.

But no, the Rite is a game, and it's treated as one, because the writer knows that it's essentially pointless. Which feels like another issue of the writing, imo. So many things are left unexplored or don't make sense or are taken too lightly because the writer knows where the script is going.

As you said, this Rite of Progression could have taken the entire expansion. An entire expansion where politics and opinions clash and merge as allies and enemies shift. And heck, we don't even need to delete the world-ending threat. If all 4 Promises actually were developed characters with strengths and weaknesses, and the Rite truly was about helping them grow, it could have been very politically interesting if all 4 of them + Scions were involved in repelling that threat, or even without politics just seeing all the antics of before leading to an impressive show of force and cooperation.

[arstoka]

I just want to hijack this part for a bit.

One of the things I found somewhat disturbing about DT (and some people online too) is the ... significance of the Scions not just backing different Promises in that Rite, but acting so playful about competing with each other as we practically play Kingmaker.

... -snip-

I agree with most of your commentary.

The expansion itself, for me personally, set out on the exact wrong foot by writing the WOL into a situation where they were aiding in the process of the election of a political figure. The premise itself is rife with issues, especially when it relates to the fact that the Scions were such a hugely influential and political entity that RECENTLY disbanded so that 'other nations would have to work out things on their own'.

The only way I would accept the Rite of Succession plot line is if we were hired specifically by Gulool Ja Ja to ensure that there wasn't internal or external interference to keep the competition fair.

[LisseyCrowe]

I agree with most of your commentary.

The expansion itself, for me personally, set out on the exact wrong foot by writing the WOL into a situation where they were aiding in the process of the election of a political figure. The premise itself is rife with issues, especially when it relates to the fact that the Scions were such a hugely influential and political entity that RECENTLY disbanded so that 'other nations would have to work out things on their own'.

The only way I would accept the Rite of Succession plot line is if we were hired specifically by Gulool Ja Ja to ensure that there wasn't internal or external interference to keep the competition fair.

Oh tbh I agree, this really shouldn't be something the Scions get involved with. I think if they truly wanted the Vacation angle then using the letter Krile found to get us here, followed by Gulool going "I'll tell you everything, but I know of you guys' integrity and I want you to design/lead the tests" could have been more fun and would help split up the Scions and make them shine more? Otherwise if we go "Screw the vacation" I'd probably reverse Dawntrail itself, possibly pushing the succession to post-Expac content. Have the Scions be here because of the Dome itself and then, once all is solved and the Promises are fleshed out it'd make a little bit more sense for the Scions to be more playful maybe(???) since all 4 of them have proven themselves and by then the tests are no longer about who's winning but how and how do the people feel about it.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

I just want to hijack this part for a bit.

As you said, this Rite of Progression could have taken the entire expansion.

They had the bones of three different compelling full expansions:

The race for the throne and a Scion civil war,

Alexandria, just all of it,

adventuring with Estinien and tracking down the Golden City, learning about Tural along the way, maybe the Golden City isn't even real and Emet did a little trolling.

They managed to properly develop none of them in favor of Alisaie's infamous dialog, "where's Wuk Lamat?'

[Themarvin]

The story may not be for all, I for one like the story as it is... you can't have it all in this game and this time the story is a slightly bit different than previous expansions that also where different.

Honestly there has been I don't like this, wrong impact, and whatever BS about every single expansion in this game and that is including every single bit of side content.

It is beating a dead horse syndrom, and that people want to waste alot of time making the threads thats 3 posts long and more to it is really their problem of their own as well as the their followers in a figure of speech.

Final Fantasy has some many edges and cuts and the likes...

It would be like telling a FFVII lover to love FFXII or the likes... in which they said they hated.

And that is just how it is, FFXIV is a themepark, and as for one of those who have only played one other FF game than FFXIV, then I can only say I love it all, for those of you have been playing multiple and hating multiple, you will never be fully satisfied with FFXIV as in like ever, and that is really all that can be said about that as it is, and frankly enough most forget the real point about FFXIV and MMORPG's in general that the content is driven by the players aside of the MSQ, and that is why you are playing the game most of all or should be, else you would be in constant denial and may as well just find another game to play.

I can recommend Baldurs Gate 3, which I sinked more than 500 hours into myself at the side while waiting for more stuff to do in FFXIV.

Can assure you guys can spend 1000 hours plus in that singleplayer gamer if so ( it is really good as well ).

[Strike_]

Dawntrail had great potential - Tural's politics and future depending on a competition between would-be successors all with different ambitions? A really interesting premise, so much can be done with it. But as the story progresses, there is no political intrique to be seen anywhere. -snip-

While XIV has never been the peak of political writing, what it's done so far has always felt beliveable to some degree (on it's own established standards). At the very least it has always given any political conflict grounds to stand on. Here we're competing for an entire nation's leadership and that role is never expanded beyond "oh it's for the peace and prosperity, it's this real cool thing". We never really get to truly witness how the said peace is upheld, and anyone who could potentially threaten or test it is immediately swept aside upon introduction, like the renegade faction of Yok Huy or the Mamool Ja with their Blessed Siblings. With just a few empty pleasantries about wanting to get to know you, all is forgiven and forgotten. In Mamool Ja's case, their old (althought harmful) tradition is just neatly dropped, just like that, no questions asked. All of Tural's politics are a mystery and every time there's a chance to explore them, it's not used. Oh, in Shaaloani there's people who rose to enforce laws in midst of rampant unlawfulness? Interesting, is this not the norm in Tural? Are there laws on the other side of the bridge then? How are they being upheld? Is the lack of them why there's a problem with bandits in Kozama'uka? How does the Dawnservant rule over Tural, exactly? Oh, there it goes, never to be touched on again. The Very Important Bracelet™ is much more interesting and relevant, apparently.
-snip-

Thank you! there's 3 opposing factions and there's no pushback from any of them when wuk wins. we're led to believe that gulool ja ja hosted a 3 day rager and that stopped hundreds of years of war between the hroth and mamool ja for 80 years no big deal.

imagine if we just took aymeric and got wasted with nidhogg and that was the end of the dragonsong war? it's absurd. there's not a single thought to the political ramifications of ANYTHING that's happening in dawntrail, and while 14 has had varying levels of political drama over the years it's never been COMPLETELY ABSENT. this kept its factions and world grounded in reality instead of it feeling like the setting of a poorly set up shonen anime. Tural does not feel like a real place.

there's tons of other issues, like the character writing OP talks about but dawntrail just has no depth.

I think ultimately it will be fine as long as the writing quality recovers by next expac because the basic premise and broad plot points of dawntrail are good enough but the writing just has no detail or depth.

[Voidmage]

The story may not be for all, I for one like the story as it is... you can't have it all in this game and this time the story is a slightly bit different than previous expansions that also where different.

Honestly there has been I don't like this, wrong impact, and whatever BS about every single expansion in this game and that is including every single bit of side content.

It is beating a dead horse syndrom, and that people want to waste alot of time making the threads thats 3 posts long and more to it is really their problem of their own as well as the their followers in a figure of speech.

Final Fantasy has some many edges and cuts and the likes...

It would be like telling a FFVII lover to love FFXII or the likes... in which they said they hated.

And that is just how it is, FFXIV is a themepark, and as for one of those who have only played one other FF game than FFXIV, then I can only say I love it all, for those of you have been playing multiple and hating multiple, you will never be fully satisfied with FFXIV as in like ever, and that is really all that can be said about that as it is, and frankly enough most forget the real point about FFXIV and MMORPG's in general that the content is driven by the players aside of the MSQ, and that is why you are playing the game most of all or should be, else you would be in constant denial and may as well just find another game to play.

I can recommend Baldurs Gate 3, which I sinked more than 500 hours into myself at the side while waiting for more stuff to do in FFXIV.

Can assure you guys can spend 1000 hours plus in that singleplayer gamer if so ( it is really good as well ).

That disguise of "just unsub" is some Team Rocket level.

Just one thing I comment here.
Your comparition with FF7 and 12 is horrible.
These are two different games.
FF14 is one ongoing game.
Themepark doesn't mean hitting the breaks, driving reverse and changing the narrative and storytelling while completely forgetting the way to that point.
It means having lots of different things for different players with different things from different FF.

Your whole comment boils down to:
"This games story is mine now, all who liked how it was before can ***** of."

Baldurs Gate isn't even the same genre.

[ThorneDynasty]

Thank you! there's 3 opposing factions and there's no pushback from any of them when wuk wins. we're led to believe that gulool ja ja hosted a 3 day rager and that stopped hundreds of years of war between the hroth and mamool ja for 80 years no big deal.

imagine if we just took aymeric and got wasted with nidhogg and that was the end of the dragonsong war? it's absurd. there's not a single thought to the political ramifications of ANYTHING that's happening in dawntrail, and while 14 has had varying levels of political drama over the years it's never been COMPLETELY ABSENT. this kept its factions and world grounded in reality instead of it feeling like the setting of a poorly set up shonen anime. Tural does not feel like a real place.

there's tons of other issues, like the character writing OP talks about but dawntrail just has no depth.

I think ultimately it will be fine as long as the writing quality recovers by next expac because the basic premise and broad plot points of dawntrail are good enough but the writing just has no detail or depth.

I can't stop thinking of that one provincial from ARR who told this heart breaking story of how his mother and sister threw themselves off a cliff rather than subject themselves to even more humiliation by Garlean soldiers.

But yeah, sure, Alphinaud and Alisaie must have learned a super valuable lesson about how Garlemald can make peace with their former victims by sharing a meal and singing kumbaya.

They are writing for people who think Marvel movies are peak of fiction now. Children, literal or otherwise.

[Strike_]

I can't stop of that one provincial from ARR who told this heart breaking story of how his mother and sister threw themselves off a cliff rather than subject themselves to more humiliation by Garlean soldiers.

But yeah, sure, Alphinaud and Alisaie must have learned a super valuable lesson about how Garlemald can make peace with their former victims by sharing a meal and singing kumbaya.

They are writing for people who think Marvel movies are peak of fiction now. Children, literal or otherwise.

ultimately garlemald has a lot of work ahead of it to make peace but it's not impossible, especially now that they're not actively trying to invade the world and be tyrants, but if the dawntrail dialogue writing staff attempts to write anything redeeming them I just don't see it working in any way as it will just be something vapid like "somehow jullus is now in charge of the entirety of garlemald because players like him cuz he's a nice dude, also there was 0 political pushback from the myriad of factions we implied still exist because jullus is just totally a nice guy who the scions are friends with and that means he's in charge now"

Aymeric got shanked by his political enemies....

[ThorneDynasty]

ultimately garlemald has a lot of work ahead of it to make peace but it's not impossible, especially now that they're not actively trying to invade the world and be tyrants, but if the dawntrail dialogue writing staff attempts to write anything redeeming them I just don't see it working in any way as it will just be something vapid like "somehow jullus is now in charge of the entirety of garlemald because players like him cuz he's a nice dude, also there was 0 political pushback from the myriad of factions we implied still exist because jullus is just totally a nice guy who the scions are friends with and that means he's in charge now"

Aymeric got shanked by his political enemies....

Oh, I'm not saying peace is impossible. I mean, read about any crime against humanity from WW2 and you have to marvel how a peace between the involved nations was ever possible afterwards.

But it sure as fuck wasn't the result of something as vapid as sharing recipes.