Expert dungeon "difficulty"

[DontReadThis]

People just aren't used to the mechanics, but they'll have an easier time once they're experienced. However, a real issue they have are forced small pulls, such as the final MSQ dungeon, or slowing down the run right before a boss by making you fight a damage sponge monster that isn't even dangerous and just takes forever to die. The biggest example is that giant turtle, its stomp isn't dangerous at all unless you're almost dead. I've healed the place tons of times and tell the dps to just stay in the stomp to kill it faster, but they just run out, lose uptime on it, and it takes forever to drop dead.

[Saraide]

People just aren't used to the mechanics, but they'll have an easier time once they're experienced. However, a real issue they have are forced small pulls, such as the final MSQ dungeon, or slowing down the run right before a boss by making you fight a damage sponge monster that isn't even dangerous and just takes forever to die. The biggest example is that giant turtle, its stomp isn't dangerous at all unless you're almost dead. I've healed the place tons of times and tell the dps to just stay in the stomp to kill it faster, but they just run out, lose uptime on it, and it takes forever to drop dead.

I'm seeing a bit of a miniboss-ification of trash pulls recently and I think we are in the phase where it uses the worst of both worlds: complete nothing burgers in terms of mechanics (endless turtle stomps, unending doll slams) but also HP high enough to make them do their thing. We need to get out of this phase asap.

[Toutatis]

That depends. They may break that tradition and keep the expert dungeons seperate from the others. Wise imo

They won’t. One of them is MSQ. It’s the same old model.

I'm seeing a bit of a miniboss-ification of trash pulls recently and I think we are in the phase where it uses the worst of both worlds: complete nothing burgers in terms of mechanics (endless turtle stomps, unending doll slams) but also HP high enough to make them do their thing. We need to get out of this phase asap.

It’s pretty much the same as before. It’s just the gear.

[Tunda]

It is called expert for a reason

[Roda]

I'm seeing a bit of a miniboss-ification of trash pulls recently and I think we are in the phase where it uses the worst of both worlds: complete nothing burgers in terms of mechanics (endless turtle stomps, unending doll slams) but also HP high enough to make them do their thing. We need to get out of this phase asap.

I also think they need to not place them in the same spot each time.

Becomes predictable..

[Lersayil]

Not even sure it's a difficulty issue. The first two bosses in the nightmare circus one aren't exactly hard on paper, just... not well designed?

The dancing is fine in the first one, but its easy to make mistakes, and instead of taking damage, you are paying with a pretty long downtime for each. Usually we're just punished with damage and after a few too many failures death.

The second one with the cups is... I'm honestly not sure how I'm supposed to track both of the cups, as my FOV is just not wide enough fully zoomed out in melee. I've seen others doing it, so I may just really suck with tracking things off-screen?

[Aulainn]

Just not for the reason you expect it to, it just means "newest dungeons".
Also, unironically skill issue, we had a brand new party and no wipes, only one dps died couple times.

[Basteala]

The expert dungeons can't really be different than "normal" dungeons because in a few patches the now current expert dungeons aren't "expert" anymore but "normal" dungeons.

Honestly I think the easy solution would be for optional dungeons to be "Expert", and for Current Level to just go into "High Level" for daily roulettes, or Level 100 Roulettes, separate from optional, harder ones. Simple.

[Saraide]

Not even sure it's a difficulty issue. The first two bosses in the nightmare circus one aren't exactly hard on paper, just... not well designed?

The dancing is fine in the first one, but its easy to make mistakes, and instead of taking damage, you are paying with a pretty long downtime for each. Usually we're just punished with damage and after a few too many failures death.

The second one with the cups is... I'm honestly not sure how I'm supposed to track both of the cups, as my FOV is just not wide enough fully zoomed out in melee. I've seen others doing it, so I may just really suck with tracking things off-screen?

You track one of the cups and remember where the other one is in relation to it. If two ghosts jump into opposite cups then they will still be in opposite cups at the end.

I also think they need to not place them in the same spot each time.

Becomes predictable..

The way I see it is that enemy HP needs to scale up or down depending on their complexity. An enemy with many and intricate mechanics should have more HP so they actually do many of those mechanics while an enemy like the turtle that only does one thing should have low hp because it just does the same simple aoe over and over again.

[Avoidy]

I'm loving these, and I say this as someone who's just unlocked them yesterday and ate dookie in the msq level 100 final boss because I wasn't expecting them to layer 3 things at once. It's awesome.
I've also really loved how they use the trash mobs as a way to foreshadow boss mechanics. Like in the msq dungeon with the holo walls, they foreshadow fake walls on your way to the boss and then fake walls are part of the fight. The content has been the highlight of this expansion, which is a good thing because it's the content we'll be repeating the most. Whoever designed these, give them a raise and keep them on staff please. Even after you "get used to" the mechanics, you still have to perform them which is a lot more than I can say about the slop we got in endwalker.