Why are we changing Viper????

[Isala]

I mean, a majority of the playerbase are casuals so...

And even the most casual players I know are confused as to who was struggling with Viper.

[Slirith]

And even the most casual players I know are confused as to who was struggling with Viper.

Oh I understand, was just pointing out their odd focus on it being the casuals fault.

[Isala]

Oh I understand, was just pointing out their odd focus on it being the casuals fault.

Right. I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that there literally is no Hardcore vs Casual argument when it comes to job skill anymore. We've long since passed the point on all jobs where both Hardcore and Casuals agree that SE's Job design is absolutely dog water. Only a very select group of people actually feel like they have any difficulty to them. The DPS are all universally neutered now, including the former "hard" Job of BLM. Tanks are having any actual skill disappear from their toolkit, because apparently weaving gap closers for damage is "too hard", and "push your buttons to generate aggro" is apparently SO very taxing on SE's testing team. Healer's issues have been known for entire expansions.

And now the one actual melee with slight engagement is going to get nerfed to the bottom feeder skill level that is the SE dev team. Because that is the only logical solution I can come up with. Is that the dev team is so absolutely garbage at the game, THEY can't handle anything that requires a pulse. Every single interview and discussion we've seen from them indicates this. "We test bosses, and then add HP, because our players are better than us." "We had to nerf Ninja because players found a better rotation." "We had to remove our healer from the dungeon testing team, because they actually cleared an Extreme." They have to be designing this game for themselves. Because anyone who's that "unskilled" at this point is literally just not pushing buttons, and also doesn't care. They're not "bad", they're apathetic, and don't care what the difference is for their parties.

[Taliriah]

Well, to be fair, Viper suffers from a similar problem as Dancer, in that you have to keep an eye on a specific thing to make sure you are hitting the correct button (left or right for viper; one of the Simon says colors for dancer’s specials).

For dancer having to divide your attention between your bars and the fight is not a problem but rather the only single aspect of the job that is engaging at all.

In the case of viper this isn't rng based and therefore super predictable, it doesn't require any simplification.

If either of those are "problems" then you can just as well qualify any challenging aspect of the game as a problem.

[Tunda]

fun is illegal nowadays

[LyraShu]

Please. Do. Not. Change. Viper.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk~

[Lieri]

They have made the ceiling of all classes so low (including the usually 500 iq opti in BLM) that they cant make Viper too busy. Basically they are forced to dumb down their own latest creation as a result of their own doing homogenizing and simplifying all classes.

[kaynide]

They have made the ceiling of all classes so low (including the usually 500 iq opti in BLM) that they cant make Viper too busy. Basically they are forced to dumb down their own latest creation as a result of their own doing homogenizing and simplifying all classes.

The problem with all the jobs (imho) is that there really just isn't intrinsicly difficult in pressing 6 or so button presses, regardless of what they are. 1-2-3 1-2-3 isn't more complicated than 1-1-1 2-2-2.

The jobs NEED to actually play differently; things like positioning, or comboing, or setting up moves like in Guild Wars (lay a fire trap, then do an attack through the firetrap to do a burst by "igniting your weapons" for example)

The emnity system and/or Thief's Trick attack in FF11 was a great idea.


I know it's impossible in FFXIV's setup, but something like Monster Hunter where different weapons can feel like you're playing entirely different games is a big boost.

Monk for example, should feel like you're playing street fighter with button combos; mechanist SHOULD be laying traps..etc




It just is the game as it is: all jobs play 1-2-3, all monsters are just gathered into a ball and burned down. No need to take out a healer-type first, or prioritize a certain mob. Or deal with mobs necro-raising fallen. Heck, all combat mechanics in the entire game boil down to "stand in the correct place/have things in the correct place and let attack resolve". There's no jumping over blades, there's no organic use of the environment. there isn't even a proper physics engine to jump correctly.

[DivineP]

Picto's next with its burst.

[Ramiee]

Picto's next with its burst.

i could see them maybe increasing how long star prism stays up but besides that being a little tight picto's burst is super easy.