Please Retain Complexity in Viper.

[W00by]

I am hopeful that this post will reach the eye's of Creative Studio III's feedback teams or anyone responsible for planning the upcoming job adjustments. Since the Early Access release of Dawntrail, I have been playing Viper almost exclusively. I was excited for this job, and fortunately my expectations have been exceeded. I can confidently state that this is one of my favorite jobs ever released in FFXIV.

Therefore, it has been concerning to me that adjustments have been announced to a job that I feel is nearly perfect already. In the interest of providing nuanced and detailed feedback, I will provide a list of reasons the job should remain unadjusted -- or, if it must be adjusted, explain why certain changes may be more favorable than others.

Thank you for your time.

Lessening Directional Requirements

I understand that directional requirements can be frustrating for players coming to melee from other roles, but they are integral to keeping melee rotations from becoming static across various types of content. Therefore, I do not think any actions (Flanksting Strike, Flanksbane Fang, Hindsting Strike, or Hindsbane Fang, nor the Dreadwinder Combo) should have their positionals removed for the following reasons.

Firstly, it sets Viper apart. Over time, many Melees have had their positional requirements reduced. Dragoon has had a positional removed in Dawntrail, Endwalker removed many of Monk's positionals, Reaper was designed with less restrictive positional requirements to begin with, etc. To many players, Viper has been exciting because it has so many positionals that allow them to express their skill in a manner unique to Viper.

Secondly, it maintains Viper's complexity. Before release, many players were concerned that Viper would be a job where you simply "press the flashing buttons" because the Vipersight gauge guides you through your rotation. There are still players today who feel this way. But for Viper players like myself, we enjoy the unique feel of Viper. For Viper, the rotation is simpler and more guided than other jobs, but where you position yourself as you perform the rotation is more important. This unique appeal would be lost if any of Viper's directional skills were removed.

Finally, Viper's kit already has many ways to lessen directional requirements. The role action "True North" is an obvious example, but there are tools within Viper's kit as well. During "Reawaken," the player's actions have no positional requirements for an extended period of time, so if an enemy mechanic or phase makes hitting positional requirements more difficult at that time, Reawaken can be used to extend the time until the next positional. This is true for Uncoiled Fury as well, which also has a longer recast time. Using these tools to "buy time" until your next positional adds a level of engagement to the kit that long-time players like myself find exciting and enjoyable.

(Continued in part 2)

[W00by]

(Part 2 of the above post)

Busyness of the Rotation

I have less to say in this category because the amount of "busyness" a player will enjoy is subjective. But in terms of actions per minute, especially those performed under burst, Viper is not much higher than other jobs with low recast times and high execution requirements, such as Ninja or Monk.

There are some instances in which having to use both Twinfang and Twinblood after an action can prevent you from using a role action such as Feint, True North, or Bloodbath. Personally, I find this enjoyable because it encourages you to think before casting those moves in order to decide when it is best to use them. I enjoy Viper's ability weaving and having to decide when to use moves such as Hunter's Coil, Swiftskin's Coil, and Uncoiled Fury that have linked abilities that must be used after their cast. I suggest that you give people time to get used to the busyness, as they may come to enjoy it -- and if they don't, there are plenty of less "busy" options that people can switch to if they do not enjoy Viper.

Welcome Changes

Within the Lodestone post about upcoming job adjustments, you do mention increasing the range of certain abilities. This, I feel, is an excellent change in line with the adjustment made to Gunbreaker's "Continuation" ability. Increasing the range of Death Rattle, Twinfang Bite, Twinblood Bite, and the Legacy abilities to 5 yalms (like GNB's Continuation) would allow them to be weaved when moving out more easily, which would make the job feel smoother and better without any adjustments to its innate complexity. I suggest you keep this change, while retaining depth in the rest of the kit. And, if directional requirements must be adjusted, please consider only reducing potency to make missing positional skills less punishing, though I still caution against doing this, as the difference between a hit and missed positional is only 50 or 60 potency, which is already a relatively minor loss.

In Conclusion

Thank you for taking the time to read my feedback about the Viper job. I love this job and would like to continue playing it as my main job throughout Dawntrail, so I am hopeful this feedback provides insight into an excited Viper's stance on the matter.

To other players who have read this, please express your considerate and detailed opinions on the matter toward the developers so they may use our thoughts as feedback. Let's all continue to enjoy Dawntrail together.

[Tunda]

I would love to add my voice to all viper mains that are focusing on making the job have an actual identity..

just don't change a thing it is already perfect

for those who want to change the job identity.. maybe the job is not for you.. like Reaper was not for me i didn't feel like the job is that complex so I change it and that is the reason why I quit endwalker.. and i don't want to quit dawntrail

[kurkee]

I wholeheartedly agree. When it comes to melee especially, and how crowded the role has gotten, it is more important than ever to distinguish the members of the role and help them find their respective niches. While Viper is derivative in certain respects, the uniqueness of an execution focused job based on positionals and speed emphasizes melee fundamentals in a way that its peers have been pulling away from over time. A lot of players really like this, myself included. Making changes to the job prior to a week passing is not fair to the population of players that are simply enjoying the job, the expansion, and not complaining on a public forum.

Again, I want to restate that you have six melees now. You should find avenues that make them feel distinguished from one another wherever you can. If you don't give them ways to feel distinct from one another, it will create a long term nightmare for the health of the game for balance and interesting job design.

[Quor]

It's counter-intuitive, but just as an FYI, you can make posts longer than the default character limit by posting the post and then editing the extra text in after the fact. One of many quirks this forum system has.

That aside, I agree completely.

[W00by]

Thank you for the heads up! Despite having been around since Heavensward, this is my first time making a forum post, as I feel very passionately about this issue. If I need to make lengthy feedback posts in the future (let's cross our fingers that I don't!), I'll have you to thank

[FunnyCero]

It has been a week. Let the job remain as it is for at least until people have gotten the chance to feel out and commit the buttons to memory (which the time to do can vary between individuals). Even then, why is it a bad thing to have a job that is so busy? Juggling your buttons while dealing with the craziness of difficult content can be a rush for a subset of players and Viper seems to carve out that niche very nicely. Let the job be hard. So many jobs have already been dramatically changed from their original incarnations that they're practically unrecognizable nowadays other than their effects and weapon.

[SkylerBinn]

Replying just to bump this up. I hate MMO forums with a passion and usually never post on them, however I saw the post that was made about viper changes in 7.05 and I felt compelled to.

Viper is by far the most fun melee class in this game, and the 'busyness' they want to remove is the reason why (for me). I have no idea who could possibly be asking for the class to be made easier. To top it all off, I haven't seen or heard any actual viper players complain about the class being too 'busy'.

It really bugs me to see these types of changes being proposed so early after the devs came out and said the game was too easy and they wanted to make it more challenging. For me and probably several other players, the idea that they'd be making the game more engaging by increasing the difficulty was the main selling point of the expansion this time around. To see things being made easier because of people complaining is a complete slap in the face to anyone who was excited about the upcoming difficulty increase.

If their goal was to make the game more difficult, I fail to see how a change like this aligns with that vision. Especially changes that were proposed so quickly without letting the meta settle and letting people truly learn the ins and outs of the class. I'm tired of MMO devs ruining things that they've done a fantastic job with because they decided they should cater to players that have to play with a helmet on instead of the people who actually enjoy what they made. It almost feels as if the devs weren't confident in their implementation of viper to begin with if they're willing to budge on it that quickly. I understand changing a job for balance reasons, but this is very clearly not that scenario. This is a scenario where you've given players who prefer a higher APM, higher maintenance class a place in the game (arguably for the first time), and now you want to take that from them, in the same breath that you say the game is "like a 2d platformer where you cannot fall to your death". Please do not remove the one thing that distinguishes this class from the rest.

[Wolf_Heartnet]

I like the changes they are making to VIper.

[W00by]

May I ask why you like the hypothetical changes? In providing feedback to the developers, it is helpful to be detailed. I would like to hear what specific changes you like and why.

It would also be helpful to know your level as a Viper and what content you have done with it.