About Positionals

[RaevusAstra]

You can't possibly have played through 2.0 and 3.0 and ignored positionals the entire time... positionals would break your combo back then...

[Ayan_Calvesse]

Maybe they never played classes like Dragoon?

Side note - positionals already have been updated somewhat if you look at Gibbet/Gallows and later Vipers abilities.

Gibbet Gallows have a LINE on the buff icon that indicates whether its a back position or side.

Viper gives you a buff that gives you a heads up where your next ideal positional should come from.

[Kalocin]

Pretty sure most people who like positional requirements simply just want jobs to have more engaging mechanics than spam burst every 2 minutes and use builder spender in between. At least positionals add "something" different.


If they are removed I would want to see another mechanic to replace them for melee. Otherwise the next thing we'll see is people asking to remove cast times because it's too hard to dodge aoes while casting.

[noelregnard]

Pretty sure most people who like positional requirements simply just want jobs to have more engaging mechanics than spam burst every 2 minutes and use builder spender in between. At least positionals add "something" different.


If they are removed I would want to see another mechanic to replace them for melee. Otherwise the next thing we'll see is people asking to remove cast times because it's too hard to dodge aoes while casting.

And you already know the crybabies will continue crying until all semblance of "challenge" is removed from the game. They use arbitrary words like "unfun", "redundant" to describe anything that reminds them that they actually have to put in efforts to get better.
One of the crybaby trolls here actually said that they want this game to have an autoplay mode. Think about that for a second.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

Positionals are fine as is, if you can't hit them, play one of the myriad of other jobs, don't drag the game down to your level by demanding their removal.

[W00by]

It so often surprises me that positionals are such a hotly contested subject in this game. "They are a core mechanic of the melee class, and if you don't like them, there are other roles to play." This is the argument often made by pro-positional players (such as myself), but it doesn't seem to sit well with anti-positional audiences.

To them, I posit a hypothetical: What if I, as a player, hate the idea of cast times? I simply detest holding still, it makes me feel like I'm moving through molasses, and I don't like that to be an optimal caster player, I have to learn how to cancel my casts by moving late in the cast bar (slidecasting) in order to play optimally.

Would you then say it's fair to champion the total removal of cast times? After all, all four caster DPS, all 4 healers, and even two of the melees have cast times! If I hate cast times, then surely I simply cannot play these roles. You might say there are jobs like Summoner, that are "casters" but don't cast that much that I could play -- but to that, I would say there are jobs like Reaper that have positionals but very rarely and with much greater control over when you do them than other melees that you can play if you don't like positionals but feel you MUST play a melee.

So what would you say to a player who hypothetically hates cast times? Would you argue for the removal of casting? After all, a bad tank can cause a boss to place AoEs underneath you, forcing you to move and cancel a cast. And on some bosses, they don't matter because the boss is off the edge of a platform and you hardly ever have to move anyway. So surely it wouldn't be too bad to delete them, no?

But no, you don't see people arguing that cast times need to be removed. Because they are integral to the balance and design of caster DPS and healers, and some people might even find them subjectively fun. If you want to play a ranged DPS without cast times, there are options for that, or you could play tank or melee too.

It's the same deal for melee. Some people subjectively like positionals, and if you don't like them, maybe don't play melee.

[ThorneDynasty]

Considering how many defenders new SMN has: Oh god please stop bringing up cast times, there are players who totally would remove them. I know BLM took some damage but it's still salvageable, don't give them even worse ideas.

[Kazimere]

You all need to chill. They said they were taking a look and making some adjustments. It doesn’t mean they’re going to remove every positional from viper, so stop whining.

Additionally, the auto combo for the filler is a pain, and that’s causing more issues than the positional themselves.

[W00by]

You all need to chill. They said they were taking a look and making some adjustments. It doesn’t mean they’re going to remove every positional from viper, so stop whining.

Additionally, the auto combo for the filler is a pain, and that’s causing more issues than the positional themselves.

A pain to who? You? I happen to love the filler combos, so it's certainly not a pain to me. You'll quickly find that your opinion of the game isn't monolithic, and that -- get this -- people can disagree with you on things!

Your thoughts are as valid as anyone else's. Simply by speaking here, you're doing the same thing you describe as us "whining" -- you're "whining" about us.

Of course, I don't think you're whining, you're expressing your opinion. Just like we are! We have thoughts about the proposed Viper changes and want to share them with the developers. If we don't like those changes, we have every right as active users to complain about them. I believe in an era of simplification, the fact that simplifications have been proposed for a week old job is concerning and want to share that.

If you are in favor of, or against the changes, feel free to share your thoughts. But attacking other players for having the audacity to care about something in a video game they've dedicated tens of hours to -- maybe more -- is just really lame.

[Kazimere]

Me calling people out isn’t whining. People (not you) are jumping to conclusions before anything has even been done.

I’m making objective statements. I don’t personally care if positional stay or go, but I do know they’re more annoying to do on Viper than on the other melee. The gameplay of Viper being a nice flow and very fun aside, the nature of its setup lends itself to having to look at the hotbars more than the other melee, because the flow of the filler isn’t the same from gcd to gcd. That makes things more annoying, because you can’t really get into a flow while focusing on mechanics.

My opinion is that if you remove the positional requirements from the filler but leave them for the double blade triggers then people would be happier. Or, open up the GCDs on the filler to be their own buttons, so that people have a semblance of things more consistently.