About Positionals

[Lusarae]

True North helps with just about... everything here, also the bosses that are only on the edge attackable from the front have closed circle hit boxes which means you don't need positional at all. Open circle hit boxes are the the ones meant for positionals not that anyone is forced to do them.

Oh yeah having to waste yet another precious hotkey to deal with a bad system totally makes it better. I also know how the circle hit boxes work, my point was you have fights where you can't even do them at all so why are they in the game? Fights should be consistent with how you deal your damage. So lets break this down again...

We have some melee jobs that don't have to deal with them.
We have bosses that don't even allow you to do them.
We have what feels like a vestigial ability still in the game to ignore them.
The new class put into the game is having a patch within the first month of launch to remove them.

Why are they even in the game? To have something that people say "Well you can ignore it if you want anyways" so again... why is it in the game? People shouldn't feel like their damage is getting gimped by not participating in this "optional" and outdated part of the game. It doesn't matter if you aren't forced to do them, the feeling is still always there. You also shouldn't have certain classes just locked off forever if you don't want to deal with the system by just avoiding those jobs in the first place. It just feels so outdated and unfun, if they were so good then combos would still be required to land your positionals.

It's the least fun part of any job that has them. They're arbitrary and don't make sense at all. Outside of a few outliers like a ninja's trick attack which is probably the only one I'd keep in the game. Also when you're doing them efficiently you are barely moving, since you'll be in the center of the flank and rear so you have to take one step at most to trigger them. Like at that point are you really hitting a full rear, or a full flank? No. So why have them? You're just gaming an already gamey and niche system not at all playing it the way it was probably originally intended.

[noelregnard]

Oh yeah having to waste yet another precious hotkey to deal with a bad system totally makes it better. I also know how the circle hit boxes work, my point was you have fights where you can't even do them at all so why are they in the game? Fights should be consistent with how you deal your damage. So lets break this down again...

Just like we have swift cast to ignore cast time, arm's length to ignore KB, invul to ignore mechanics. Also LMAO at "precious hotkeys", this is hysterical.

We have some melee jobs that don't have to deal with them.

The go play them. Different jobs are made for different people. How is it so hard for you people to understand this?

We have bosses that don't even allow you to do them.

Different fights are different. Crazy am I right. We should all make every fight the same just with different visuals! Oh wait, that's already 90% of the game.

We have what feels like a vestigial ability still in the game to ignore them.

Already addressed

The new class put into the game is having a patch within the first month of launch to remove them.

Because of some crybabies wanting to ruin yet another job

Why are they even in the game? To have something that people say "Well you can ignore it if you want anyways" so again... why is it in the game? People shouldn't feel like their damage is getting gimped by not participating in this "optional" and outdated part of the game. It doesn't matter if you aren't forced to do them, the feeling is still always there. You also shouldn't have certain classes just locked off forever if you don't want to deal with the system by just avoiding those jobs in the first place. It just feels so outdated and unfun, if they were so good then combos would still be required to land your positionals.

You can ignore pretty much everything in this game. There are people who only RP, people who only do fishing, people who only play mahjong etc. I don't recall these people calling for the removal of parts that they don't enjoy. Why CAN'T you be like them?

It's the least fun part of any job that has them. They're arbitrary and don't make sense at all. Outside of a few outliers like a ninja's trick attack which is probably the only one I'd keep in the game. Also when you're doing them efficiently you are barely moving, since you'll be in the center of the flank and rear so you have to take one step at most to trigger them. Like at that point are you really hitting a full rear, or a full flank? No. So why have them? You're just gaming an already gamey and niche system not at all playing it the way it was probably originally intended.

Once again, don't do positionals if you don't like them.

[Laun_dingo]

Oh yeah having to waste yet another precious hotkey to deal with a bad system totally makes it better. I also know how the circle hit boxes work, my point was you have fights where you can't even do them at all so why are they in the game? Fights should be consistent with how you deal your damage. So lets break this down again...

We have some melee jobs that don't have to deal with them.
We have bosses that don't even allow you to do them.
We have what feels like a vestigial ability still in the game to ignore them.
The new class put into the game is having a patch within the first month of launch to remove them.

Why are they even in the game? To have something that people say "Well you can ignore it if you want anyways" so again... why is it in the game? People shouldn't feel like their damage is getting gimped by not participating in this "optional" and outdated part of the game. It doesn't matter if you aren't forced to do them, the feeling is still always there. You also shouldn't have certain classes just locked off forever if you don't want to deal with the system by just avoiding those jobs in the first place. It just feels so outdated and unfun, if they were so good then combos would still be required to land your positionals.

It's the least fun part of any job that has them. They're arbitrary and don't make sense at all. Outside of a few outliers like a ninja's trick attack which is probably the only one I'd keep in the game. Also when you're doing them efficiently you are barely moving, since you'll be in the center of the flank and rear so you have to take one step at most to trigger them. Like at that point are you really hitting a full rear, or a full flank? No. So why have them? You're just gaming an already gamey and niche system not at all playing it the way it was probably originally intended.

It really isn't that bad as you're making it out to be, but I do enjoy it and I know other players enjoy it because is just satisfying/engaging to do. To each their own. Also if every boss fight was the same no positionals that would be less of a challenge, and less fun to deal with in my opinion. You're not locked out of these jobs because positionals, you just refuse to take a job that just so has them and a system that is mostly used for harder content dps checks.
Also why is it in the game? Why is knock back in the game, swiftcast, interrupts, boss enrage. Like come on it's a game there is supposed to be a challenge. Like again positionals certainly start to matter in much harder content that challenges you even more. Thats what I love about this game, the intentions is to have everyone in mind for those who want a challenge and for those who don't.

If you hate doing positionals like again just don't do them, just know that harder content like savage and ultimates will have DPS checks where yes positionals will start to matter and I don't think they are changing that anytime soon.
I won't continue debating with you since you don't want to see why people want them.

Also never knew pressing one button is such a bad thing, guess we get rid of swiftcast too, don't know why we have to slow cast all the time. (I play on controller btw)

[Elaithe]

Lots of heat on this board today about positionals. I can say as someone who has played from the start of 2.0 I have never cared about them. I just mash whatever button comes next in my combos and call it a day.

That said, one of the main reasons I don’t care is because I have no idea I should even be doing them. I know it’s part of the skill description, but having played the game for the last 10 years I have read very few skill descriptions recently. I have no idea what skills are positional dependent of not. There is no obvious indicator on screen that tells me this. As Dps I mainly just stay behind the boss unless fight mechanics say otherwise.

I had to google this but there may be a brief flash or a different sound that plays to indicate you got it correct, or text in the spam of battle log. But in the heat of battle with full audio and spell effects going on I would not notice subtitle changes like this. And this would only apply after I have already done the attack.

If there was some kind of visual indicator that could display before I attack to tell me the skill I am about to use would work better from a different angle it would be amazing. I’m sure this is all part of the ‘Git Gud’ part of the game and will get hate for this. But clear visual indicators of how skills should be used would go a long way to fixing the positional debate in my opinion.

This may surprise you but I don't have to be a jerk and tell you to git gud to just want positionals in the game because I find them to be personally fun.

Let me simply ask this I guess, how does removing them even help you if you already ignore their existence? Because from your point of view it seems like they don't matter, but to mine they do as I like being rewarded for what skillful gameplay this game allows.

[Rhael]

OP has been playing the game for a decade and still can't do positionals. You can't make this shit up lmao

clear visual indicators of how skills should be used would go a long way to fixing the positional debate in my opinion.

They're called tooltips. Reading the skill explains the skill.

[RiceBaker100]

The game has 4 melee jobs already in the game that don't have positionals... they're just blue instead of red. Go play those.

[Aco505]

No to the removal of positionals.

Yes to the HUD/game providing visual/sound cues when you miss them.

[EntailedFortune]

I personally am not too fond of positionals either and would rather they were replaced with complexity elsewhere, but I think we all know that's not gonna happen, and I'd rather have them than neither...

[KevinM1]

One of the benefits of playing with a controller is that I can place my abilities in such a way to remind me where I should be attacking from. So, I put rear attacks on either X or /\, and flank attacks on [] or O. It takes the thinking out while reinforcing muscle memory.