Please don't change Viper

[wereotter]

You - a tank main - are coming into the DPS forums and telling the melee DPS mains the way they like their role to play is a problem, because you personally - and by your own admission - cannot handle the multitasking of your rotation and the positionals. Ergo, you can't play up to the level of the rest of us, and are telling us that requiring you to do more than your current skill capacity is the problem, so the game should be brought down to your level at the expense of literally everyone else's fun.

Petition to add positionals to tanking jobs... just to mess with the person you're replying to.

Also agree with original post. Viper is great. Leave it alone.

[Selvokaz]

..... we don't even know what changes are being made, and for them to say they can do it within the next 4 patches means its so small it will likely not amount to a huge difference in play style, at most what I could see them do is make it so depending on the position you are closest to flank or hindquarters, they'll make the button that lights up at the end of the combo match that positional, again if the combo can choose between flank or hind, then it lighting up on the one you're currently facing the position of would be the easiest solution to everyone's problem, or maybe I'm oversimplifying it, when I do play viper I tend to do whatever I feel like doing if I picked the wrong combo (nearly impossible since you either pick the combo that leads to the positional strikes or you don't) I two can understand both sides of the argument. Did everyone notice that the two sword gauge points in the direct of the button you need to press next in the combo if you have the two main starter buttons on the corresponding left and right keys/buttons? I play on a controller while on PC so that was a nice touch.

[wereotter]

..... we don't even know what changes are being made, and for them to say they can do it within the next 4 patches means its so small it will likely not amount to a huge difference in play style

they said some of the changes will be on the 7.01 patch and additional changes in the 7.05 patch which means they're intentionally trying to adjust the job before savage drops. Perhaps you misread the announcement as coming between the 7.1 and 7.5 patches?

This said, I can't imagine any justification they can use to make the changes we can't point to another job and ask if this job can have it why can't viper? If Dreadwinder is the problem, then why isn't Gluttony a problem? If the positionals on the core rotation are the problem, then why aren't they a problem on every other melee job?

[machete115]

VPR is a very well constructed class, proof that SE can still make great class designs with ease of entry but a high level of skill mastery. I, too, hope they don't change the class. The whole identity is fast pace, if people don't like that they do not have to play it. Further, they don't have to be good at it if they do like it but don't like how it plays.

[KevinM1]

As I previously mentioned, I'm also a disabled player with nerve damage issues in my right hand, and I also can ONLY play with a controller. Even then, I gravitate toward the high-APM jobs and love fighting games. I wouldn't ever ask for any game to dumb things down on my account.

I'll tell you exactly where the "simplification" arguments come from, and it's two places primarily:

1) The W-Cross Hotbar is NOT the default as it should be, and the game never tells you it exists. It's hidden in the settings. So, rather than controller and players having immediate access to a full 32 skills without needing to hotbar swap, they feel overwhelmed by the restrictions of the default 16 icons for their controller layout, and don't know there's a superior alternative. This is also something that encourages automation, to work around the inconvenience of not having full access to skills easily playing on controller.

2) Passive, effort-averse players who use people like us as a shield for wanting the game to be more of a cakewalk for them. "What if a player is disabled?" They try to pander to us while treating us like we're inferior so the game needs to be "brought down to our level,". I'm disabled and I can outperform these jokers even on a bad day. They need to stop using us as an excuse, it's insulting.

I can't even use the W-Cross Hotbar (it doesn't work in Toggle mode), but I don't have any trouble. I have two combat bars I toggle between using R1:

The first/default bar is typically for single target attacks
The second bar is for AoE attacks

If I need access to something else, I put it on bar 3, which I can access by quickly pressing L2->R2 or R2->L2 (I put situational things here because keeping the triggers squeezed is taxing for me (hence Toggle mode)).

That said, I agree with your larger point - FF14 has a TON of options buried within the settings. It's one of the most accessible games I've ever played. But, getting it to where it feels good (say it with me) takes effort by the player. What really needs to be addressed is how the options are organized and described, and how tooltips are written. Positional requirements, for example, shouldn't be buried within a mound of text. They should be front and center with recast times and the like.

And to reiterate your second point, accessibility shouldn't be used as the excuse for simplifying jobs. I've played since ARR. I played Dark Arts spam DRK. I played Cleric Stance WHM. I loved the rhythm of my Kaiten button presses with SAM. I love how VPR - because of its positionals - feels more like an actual dancer than DNC. Don't use players like us as an excuse to trivialize how jobs play. We're not asking for these changes.

[Punt0Mancer]

Yes pls don't change VPR it the most fun i've had in the melee role as a tank/phys range player

[Kibitzie]

Viper, AST and DNC are my favorite jobs. Well AST used to be until the change. These classes felt right from the beginning for me. This is the second job that will change that I love the way it is if this changes. I loved AST the way it was and I love viper the way it is. Some jobs are just not meant for everyone and some people don't like change. That isn't a reason to change these jobs. They aren't/weren't impossible to learn and some learn it easier than others. There is no reason to change them. If they were broken, sure, change them but they aren't. Please keep this in mind.

Go against those who want easy classes to just whip through like all the others. Just this once. Ya can't please everyone. This time please make the "no changes" people happier and not change things.

Each job has something special about them. Why should these be any different? I don't even play AST as much because of the changes. its boring now.

I hope it doesn't change. i wish people would accept the jobs the way they are or play a different job. That is why we have so many jobs available. I am heart broken that these changes keep happening.

[AmazingEddy]

Adding another voice, please do not change viper, or at least wait more time to have consistent feeback.

The feel of quickness and busyness (which in my opinion is just a "feel" as it is actually not that quick) is what makes the job feel great, fun and have an identity.

If you start to target what you call "busyness" in viper, it will just be another reaper, which is a job that already exists and people which do not like viper can play. I thought that a selling point of this game, was the different playable jobs, but maybe it is just turning out to be a false advertisement at this point.

It is baffling to see the development team nailling fun, easy and still fresh (to some degree) new jobs, just to threaten to destroy their identity in less than a week of launch time.

[alfarini]

I also don't know who asked for these changes, it's delusional. Jobs been out for less than a month and players already want sweeping changes. Like just stop.....we have two very vocal minority at play here. One is the "please dont make us have positions to do and can you make the job easy for us?"
The second "jobs are to easy now that they have pvp like abilities, I want button bloat!"
Can people just give it time to breath and let viper be it's own thing? No of course not what am I saying. Let's be brutally honest here, just because you can play every job on one character does not mean you have to or even should. If the job that's new ends up being something you don't like? Then don't play it. Simple right?

[RaidenOmega]

Who are they even listening to? Here's my vote: Do not change the class to make it easier. It's already easy enough.