Please don't change Viper

[ValStormbreaker]

I have to agree 100%.

I've been a tank or healer main since 8/28/2013. I could never quite either find something in a dps role to enjoy in high end content or in general - or ever figure out how to play it well enough to hang with the savage crowd on a dps job.

Tanking and healing has left me a little wanting for more buttons to press so I thought I'd start Dawntrail as a Viper.

Most fun I've had in ten years. It's the perfect balance (pun not intended) where the job is busy, the positionals are not incredibly demanding but they're still there meaning focus and attention are needed. The timers leave room for skill expression and optimization. The job does not feel homogenized at all which so far these were all selling points and design social points of the job to begin with, right?

I mean even the Reawakened combo is SO satisfying to pull off while doing mechanics at the same time, love the visual and sound effects and having the Legacy oGCDs and Ouroboros finisher make the whole thing FEEL like you're playing well!

Anecdotally I have yet to hear a negative comment about VPR in game on Sargatanas (also not intended) so the fact that anyone has mentioned the job might be "too busy" is entirely new to me.

I'm adaptable to small changes but I'm genuinely hoping the core of the job stays exactly the same. I've been extremely satisfied with my new main!

You missed out on Stormblood Monk then. It's what Viper is a consolidated version of, except I'd argue it was a bit more fun due to having more deliberate executions on various maneuvers. Viper is a step forward in some places but also a step backward in others. If MNK gets the fixes it truly needs and gets a proper return to form, you'd really like it. It's terrible in its current state though, don't go anywhere near it for now.

[Hastatus]

SE, please stop listening to impulsive, injudicious complaints. Please start listening to long-tested, critiques. Wait six months and send out an in-game questionnaire to players who have spent a couple hundred hours playing as Viper to hear what they think before making rash decisions based on impatient, loud people. Jobs in FFXIV should be treated like wine and allowed to age a little.

[Zytoryu]

Just throwing my comment in the thread so SE might rethink changing it. I love Viper as it currently is.

Please don't change it square, I've waited years to have a proper Dexterity melee like Viper.

[ValStormbreaker]

Just throwing my comment in the thread so SE might rethink changing it. I love Viper as it currently is.

Please don't change it square, I've waited years to have a proper Dexterity melee like Viper.

IMHO Viper and SAM should be swapped so Viper is on Striking and SAM is on Scouting.

This would solve a lot of balance problems and issues that result from MNK and SAM sharing a gear set, but having polar opposite styles of gameplay. Since SAM's introduction, whenever MNK has been in good shape, SAM has been in terrible shape, and vice versa. One of the requests since Stormblood was to unshackle them and give SAM its own gear set, or move it somewhere else. With VPR being very similar to Stormblood MNK, it would help out balancing a whole lot.

Both jobs would also benefit from better glamour options that are more fitting for them. Striking was originally exclusively for MNK until SB, when SAM was introduced, and since then, the gear attempting to cater to two drastically different power fantasies has been pretty bad, with the only exceptions really being Stormblood's Scaevan and Omega gear sets from when Alphascape launched (the striking gear for both of which would look OUTSTANDING on Viper). Everything else looks terrible. Scouting gear isn't very cosmetically fitting for NIN either, but would actually look a lot better on SAM for that ronin-esque power fantasy.

The attitude was "well Striking already has two jobs and Scouting only has one, so we have a vacancy" but they didn't consider a lot of the issues that might come with that. It's easier to fix MNK and balance it with Viper than it is to fix MNK and not have SAM be in good shape. It'd be easier to synergize SAM and NIN than SAM and MNK unless you reinvented SAM to play at the rhythm and pace of VPR or a 1.85 GCD speed MNK, which isn't happening. MNK, meanwhile, should not only be ideally MORE like VPR, it should technically be the more advanced version of it, with more oGCD double-weaving and a much faster GCD speed.

[pumkincakez]

Viper is a great new addition to the roster of FF jobs, its easy enough to understand once you get the hang of it while leaving plenty of room to grow. Changing the class this early on in its lifespan feels like overreacting. Please reconsider making the class easier as many people right now absolutely enjoy it in its current state.

Probably too late after the lodestone post, but this community is getting embarrassing at this point. From Healer “strikes” to repeating the trend of forcing changes that nobody actually wants. Complaining about Viper after it releases for 5 minutes is why WHM doesn’t have Cleric or why role responsibility hardly exists outside savage.

They need to let us sit with the job as is for at least a month after savage releases. People who are upset about Viper need some more time with it, it hasn’t even been out a week from official launch. If Viper gets watered down and people complain, it’s our own fault. I implore SE and the dev team at CU3 to hold off and for us collectively to be patient and apply a little more dedication to understand the job as it is.

[ValStormbreaker]

Probably too late after the lodestone post, but this community is getting embarrassing at this point. From Healer “strikes” to repeating the trend of forcing changes that nobody actually wants. Complaining about Viper after it releases for 5 minutes is why WHM doesn’t have Cleric or why role responsibility hardly exists outside savage.

They need to let us sit with the job as is for at least a month after savage releases. People who are upset about Viper need some more time with it, it hasn’t even been out a week from official launch. If Viper gets watered down and people complain, it’s our own fault. I implore SE and the dev team at CU3 to hold off and for us collectively to be patient and apply a little more dedication to understand the job as it is.

Agreed wholeheartedly, though in all fairness, Cleric Stance was actually pretty bad. And as much as I dislike job homogenization, if WHM were more like an inverted BLM in the sense that it needs to go back and forth between an outgoing healing rotation and a DPS rotation to recover MP, you'd see not only the skill floor of WHMs go up, but they'd be much more amenable to trying out something like BLM since it'd be conceptually similar. The same goes with SCH and SMN; if SCH was the fairy summoner, and they swapped to SMN and SMN had its Titan egi as a tank with a health bar, it'd be a good way to ease healer players into the DPS equivalent through presenting SMN in a way that's conceptually familiar to them on entry, and then expands with things like Garuda for AoE mobbing and Ifrit for single-target attacks.

THIS is what I would call the RIGHT way to approach accessibility for "passive players", WITHOUT having to dumb the DPS jobs down. You PRESENT the job in a way that's familiar and easy to understand, and THEN you can gradually scaffold more stuff on top of that. It's not about making it "simpler" for the "casuals,". That's the wrong approach to making something "accessible" and history has shown it never works.

I'm okay with jobs being grouped into "families" with similar playstyles like this. Hell, if the class system got a rework, we could do the SCH/SMN thing and start bundling some of the jobs into "astral" and "umbral" paths/tracks for job progression on the same class, so they could thematically have a similar "core," whether mechanically or even just conceptually, so players can have a bit of horizontal progression and try out different "flavours" of the same idea, or with a similar play style but used in different ways/for different purposes whilst maintaining individual identity. PLD/DRK for Gladiator, MNK/VPR for Pugilist, WAR/GNB for Marauder, WHM/BLM as the "conjurer" and "thaumaturge" paths for "Mage" with RDM in-between and perhaps enabling cross-classing skills between the two (which we used to have in this game to a limited degree but was removed a while back), etc.

To me, that's not exactly making the jobs "homogeneous," it's offering opportunities for players to flex comfortably as needed without having to sacrifice their favourite play style all that much.

[remiff]

Once again, the devs at Square Enix are making a quick and incomprehensible decision with barely a week's perspective on a job.

This is particularly surprising since this job is popular with many people, unlike the bland rotations they implemented with the monk in Dawntrail.
It's unprecedented to make hasty decisions about a job that has just been released,
especially when they could simply wait for the savage battles to gain more effective feedback instead of listening to a vocal minority of players who want all jobs to be no-brain and without any flavor.

[HeroIgnis]

I couldn't agree more, I've heard people complain that Viper is too busy in terms of its rotation but I'd argue that's what makes it fun and unique. Viper is the first job in a while that's actually requires my brain to be active and attentive to my decision making. For the people that don't enjoy that kind of play style there a plenty of other jobs that will fill your needs, we don't need another homogenized Job. Leave Viper alone for the moment we need more time to see where it cracks before requesting adjustments.

[ValStormbreaker]

I couldn't agree more, I've heard people complain that Viper is too busy in terms of its rotation but I'd argue that's what makes it fun and unique. Viper is the first job in a while that's actually requires my brain to be active and attentive to my decision making. For the people that don't enjoy that kind of play style there a plenty of other jobs that will fill your needs, we don't need another homogenized Job. Leave Viper alone for the moment we need more time to see where it cracks before requesting adjustments.

Technically-speaking it's way more brain-dead and has a lot more hand-holding than MNK from SHB and earlier. DPS jobs now LITERALLY have guidance mechanics with the dotted-line marquee which tell you what button to push when one of your buffs has a timer that's starting to run low. It's insulting that they don't even trust the players to make a decision with their own agency. If MNK from even SHB (which was considered dumbed down for casuals even back then) were to be considered like a BMX bike, VPR is like a tricycle with training wheels attached to it.

I think this thread overall is proof that - had it been presented better in the tool tips - everyone here would have loved Stormblood MNK. Yet, demands to simplify that job were the culprit for why we're here today. VPR is accessible to a wider audience now than MNK was back then, so I'm going to implore everyone here to learn from the mistakes of history lest we be doomed to repeat them. Let what happened to MNK from 5.x onward be the lesson of what's likely to happen to not only VPR, but all other DPS jobs, if we don't push hard to get SE to reverse course on this.

[DES_VII]

Just leave the job be. Its a simple class and its only been out less than a week. The job is well done and designed. I love it and want to main it.
Do not patch Viper because of a handful of ppl that probably just started playing it and won't read. All in all if the button if flashing press it. If its green Flank if its red it rear.
Wow such a hard job to play.