I'd rather have no MSQ and more dungeons and raids at this point . . .

[genuine_stranger]

I'd love to know what people who defend Dawntrail actually like about it? The pacing is the worst it has ever been, it retreads old ground in terms of story and themes and does them worse than previous expansions have. The cast has been over taken by a loud tropey writer's pet and the scions have been turned into wooden boards that occupy space. I won't deny there are a few decent moments at the end, but they all involve characters we've known for years and are still brought down pretty badly by being in an expansion that is 90% a slog to get through.

The thought process is probably the following:
I liked the past story and presentation; therefore, I have to like the current story and presentation.

[Sotaris]

I love how FFXIV being a ''story based game'' mean that it can't have some rpg mob slaying part post Shadowbringer for some unknown reason...

It can't?

The thought process is probably the following:
I liked the past story and presentation; therefore, I have to like the current story and presentation.

It's okey to like to too, you know. It's becoming a huge circle jerk of hating on each group. It is pretty sad.

[BakoolJaJa]

Most of the Dawntrail defense posts I've seen are identical to ones I saw on WoW's forums when it hit its first truly bad expansion.

Don't go on Metacritic. It's hilarious, all of the negative reviews are going out of their way to deliver a max length analysis of the best and worst aspects, typing up essays on what went wrong and how it might have been fixed... The positive reviews "haha, main character kitty go meow, also new locations have trees."

The expansion is a fever dream, I keep on waiting for the moment I wake up and learn it's not real. I question if I needed to get high in order to enjoy it.

[Magikazam]

It can't?

The game being story based dosen't mean we can't have more ''gameplay'' part during the MSQ. I said that cause your respond to someone asking for more gameplay was ''this a story based game''. It just weird to me that to get told that we can't have more gameplay cuz ''mah story mode''

[Malthir]

Op is basically asking for something similar to ARR, we had less custscenes and alot more dungeons, you had tons of dungeons in ARR then the dungeon lay out and story changed in hard mode of the dungeon, which was usually due to what we did in the normal mode. Also the dungeons had their own storylines, most weren't connected to the MSQ, which personally I thought was a better way of doing it.

[Kaurhz]

Bad take IMO.

It's a bad story but it isn't completely unsalvageable.

and personally for me, even if a story is bad, which I did find this one to be for a lot of it -- It still doesn't detract from some of the world building that goes on, and nor does it detract from the potential intrigue later down the line.

Edit (Just to add to this, even though they can still do the same with short stories, I don't think you can get the same intrigue as what you may get with an entire story dedicated to it, as I personally did find some intrigue there, learning about the two-headed Mamool Ja in Yak T'el was a refreshing experience and honestly led to quite a multi-dimensional character in Bakool Ja. Same thing with some of the revelations in Living Memory, they just didn't focus on some of those parts enough. So even though I don't like the story I can still find potential interest there.)

Content itself can quite as easily struggle with the same dilemma honestly. Dungeons can be a massive swing and a miss... They can also be a homerun. Same for the trials, and same for any regular raids that they do.

[Sotaris]

The game being story based dosen't mean we can't have more ''gameplay'' part during the MSQ. I said that cause your respond to someone asking for more gameplay was ''this a story based game''. It just weird to me that to get told that we can't have more gameplay cuz ''mah story mode''

That's not what I said and you know it.
OP was basically saying he don't want MSQ cause he doesn't like it and just want dungeons and raids. The game is still been advertised as a story first game and has always been.

[KurenXIV]

I love how FFXIV being a ''story based game'' mean that it can't have some rpg mob slaying part post Shadowbringer for some unknown reason...

That's the most frustrating part. I'm not a professional writer but I'm going to take a horribly handled cut scene and show how with some changes you can have the things I feel are missing. That is to say, a scene that makes sense in the context of the world, involvement from our character and action that moves the story forward.

[Spoiler warning for a segment that happens prior to that of my initial post]

Let's look at the cut scene where the former dawnservent is killed by his son. Here's what I'd change:

The scene can start out the same, the son tells the father to give up all the lands to him to control or he will kill him. The father declines. He says, much like he does in the original scene, how its his burden to bare and to put his son down for this betrayal. The scene plays out as it does right now.

However, once the son rises up Wak Lumat charges forward. In that moment, a trap is sprung. A beam of energy shoots up and traps her. Bound and floating in the energy beam she questions "what kind of magic is this!?". In that moment, energy begins to glow below us and suddenly everyone is trapped. We watch on as the fight ensues. Try as we might we cannot break free. One of the scions can remark that its as if their energy is being drains the more they struggle.

As the fight progresses the father takes a mortal wound and falls back. The son monologues a bit (because who doesn't love a good monologue) about the failings of his father and his siblings. How they preach peace yet they haven't seen what he has seen. He reflects on the horrors of the wars he's fought for the name of his country and concludes by saying that he will not be a failure of a leader like his father was. As he walks towards him we begin to glow, as we have before our energy surges and we break free. We jump forward and block the final blow the son was about to deliver.

Then we engage in a 1 v 1 fight with him. As the fight progresses we have the upper hand and are able to overcome even the sons new found tech, a final massive clash of energy could ensue and we will win. The sons armor is badly damaged and he flies backwards. He's stunned and angered at how this random stranger could best him and his new power in combat. In that moment some of the robot soldiers come in and begin to shoot at us and the father. We take the hits to shield the father and in that moment the son slinks away, remarking how this isn't over and he will be ruler of this world.

These changes would shows that we are a major character in the story, it makes the scene make sense as to why it plays out as it does, it sets up a conflict that we know as a player will have a pay off and it even gives us a chance to play the game.

Just one example of how things could have bee done better IMHO.

[Malthir]

Bad take IMO.

It's a bad story but it isn't completely unsalvageable.

and personally for me, even if a story is bad, which I did find this one to be for a lot of it -- It still doesn't detract from some of the world building that goes on, and nor does it detract from the potential intrigue later down the line.

Content itself can quite as easily struggle with the same dilemma honestly. Dungeons can be a massive swing and a miss... They can also be a homerun. Same for the trials, and same for any regular raids that they do.

Yeah I also don't think it's a good idea to delete MSQ entirely. One of the issues with the current MSQ, is it's trying to be an Epic story, but without the setup.

IMO it would have been better, to cut all the Wuk stuff down to literally the first zone, maybe the second, do not resolve the contest! Then zone 3 we go off with Eistinein and have an adventure were we meet some new NPC do some stuff adventuring dungeons exploring etc. Zone 4 Erenvilles little wildwest arc is fine. Then the second act begins

The attack on Tural, we rush back do a solo duty where we arrive a the far side of the bridge the Scions are all arriving too having seen the ships, a kind of holidays over type of scene. Then we all start kicking ass, fight our way back to the city with the other scions in the dutry. As we progress to the centre square you meet Bak, Wuk and Koana, they are fighting off the invaders side by side. We see a smaller ship head to the throne room. Fight plays out the same just as he goes for the killing blow though, WoL run over and just does a kick or punch basically the same as we do in the fight with the zenos cutscene. It backs off Zoraal and with most of his forces being destroyed he jumps onto his transport makes his threat that if we don't surrender he will come back and wipe out the city etc. Gulool still dies of injuries sustained.

Second Act

Plays out similar, we get little bit of strife in the siblings, they are getting along better but with no one currently declared the leader they are learning to share responsibilities. After we beat Zooral, Sphene does her there can be no peace speech, then teleports away taking the golden city portal the robot army and ships. We don't know where she's gone or what she's planning next. End of MSQ

I'm not a great writer but at least that would give us things going on it breaks up the monotonous cutscene info dumps where people just speak at you for like 20m and the constant series of speak to Wuk MSQ. It would also leave you with things to think about a potential new enemy we don't know much about. Who's going to be the next leader of Tural etc etc. Smaller stories to world build, it's like the writers were trying to write the conclusion to a long storyline they had only just started crafting a few hours ago.

There's plenty of people that can write better than me on this forum alone so I'm not suggesting my plot overview is better, just the idea of breaking the MSQ into small chunks of various stories leaving things open for further development and using more Solo Duties where the player gets to actually do stuff around the zones, would have been better than walk to the glowy circle and watch this for 5-10m

[Magikazam]

That's not what I said and you know it.
OP was basically saying he don't want MSQ cause he doesn't like it and just want dungeons and raids. The game is still been advertised as a story first game and has always been.

I just assume that OP using an overdramatic tittle to drag more view. OP said he like the story in previous Xpac and he made it clear he would just like more gameplay part instead of cutscene of action scene in some part. Sorry if I didn't understood your post at first, but for my PoV it seemed like you told him to buy a story skip cause he wanted more gameplay moment.