Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ thoughts

[ZUZ]

The problem isn't that we got all that.

The problem is that Wuk Lamat is a textbook-case of "Mary Sue":

- Getting the majority of the screentime and dialog, making other characters severely underdeveloped (example: Zoraal Ja's goals and motivations are mentioned in like 10 lines in total) or Gabool Ja speedrunning his redemption arc in order to not steal WukLamats spotlight.

- getting plotarmor against Gabool Ja and half an army and taking him out, despite being fought off effortlessly before.

- No serious characterflaws (not likeing alpacas or being seasick doesnt count, or is even more embarassing, considering she's a 6'6 buff warrior, absolute cringe)

- She is never forced to do a morally grey decision, best example is with the red-armored HokYuj. Before they fight, some random fucking bird just attacks all of the sudden, so WukLamat can heroicly "save" her enemy and befriend them".
Imagine what kind of interessting dilemma she could have faced, if she had to kill in self defense, but her status as spotless hero is saved by coincidence, --> no character progession.

Textbook-case of "Mary Sue".

I liked Wuk Lamat but I strongly believe her character would of benefited from making questionable choices and morally grey decisions. It would of played into how she wasn't ready to become Dawnservant at the beginning of the MSQ.

[Vallavia]

What did they promise exactly?

I remember expecting a lighter story focused on helping Wuk Lamat during her competition for the throne, set in the pluricultural society of Tural. I knew I was going to search for the City of Gold, that there would be an advanced society, and that some scions would be supporting another pretender. Oh and Krile had a mysterious earring and a mail adressed to her grandfather from there.

This is exactly what we got.

I came to Dawntrail expecting a ham sandwich and I got a ham sandwich, so I don't really have anything to be upset about. I could spend the next three years ceaselessly picking apart every minor narrative failing, but frankly I don't have the energy to argue with people assuming a completely different set of facts from what was actually presented in the game.

I predicted from the jump that Wuk Lamat would be a divisive character, and I can see how she may not appeal to everyone, but to claim that she has no right to take up so much screentime in her own story is a fallacy. The Warrior of Light was only really a central protagonist in Shadowbringers and Endwalker, and the fact that they weren't really before that is a theme in those expansions. It's like saying Alphinaud shouldn't have so many lines in Heavensward (which, by the by, had much worse pacing than Dawntrail if we want to split hairs). I do wish more focus had been given to Krile, but at the same time her arc has been going on in the background since Heavensward and got paid off with all the ceremony it deserved in the end.

[honest_psycho]

First off, I want to say that the dungeons, bosses, environments, music, graphics, and gameplay are excellent. However, my primary gripe is with the main story quest (MSQ). The pacing and the main character, Wuk Lamat, were not to my liking. I personally prefer more character agency. This type of storytelling feels very reminiscent of World of Warcraft, where players mostly stand back while NPCs drive the narrative.

I appreciate all the hard work the main scenario team put into crafting this experience, and I want them to know that. While I don't expect perfection, I simply didn't enjoy the direction the MSQ took.

100% agree.

[Ragnell]

The Warrior of Light felt almost completely irrelevant to the plot this time. It seemed Wuk Lamat would become Hokage regardless of our involvement. Additionally, the pacing is much worse compared to Heavensward, especially from a gameplay standpoint. In Heavensward, it took around 2-3 hours to reach the first dungeon, Dusk Vigil, while in Dawntrail, it took closer to 4-5 hours. Although the developers delivered on some promises, they mentioned they would try something else if players didn't like it.

I'm asking for something else. Instead of another ham sandwich, give us more flavor and texture, like a BLT on artisanal bread with ripe lettuce and tomatoes.

[Ragnell]

They delivered on everything they promised in the live letter, except for the fun. The goal was to provide a fun story, but this wasn't it for me, which is why I created this post. Dungeons are crucial for both lore and pacing; ignoring them means ignoring the lore. Shutting down opinions with long texts and gatekeeping tactics won't change my mind.

[Palladiamors]

I don't hate Wuk Lamar, I hate the way she is crowbarred into everything. This is a step above Tumblr level fanfiction terms of writing an OC.

[GrizzlyTank]

I don't hate Wuk Lamar, I hate the way she is crowbarred into everything. This is a step above Tumblr level fanfiction terms of writing an OC.

Yeah. In HW Alphinaud was the focus, but Ysaile and Estinien were major supporting cast. SB Lyse was the MC but again Major supporting cast through Alphinaud, Alisaie, Gozetsu, Hien.
ShB it was largely split across Ryne, Ardbert, Alphinaud, Graha. and EW again major cast...

DT it's simply waaaaay too much focus on Wuk. To such a degree that i personally don't want to dislike the character but pretty much becomes forced to.

The first half of DT should have put more emphasis on all 4 of the claimants and better fleshed out why Bakool was such a pos and why Zoraal would completely snap, then the 2nd part put the focus on Erenville and Krile. But no, we got one minor zone as a breather from Wuk.

[honest_psycho]

I think the disconnect here is that people conflate the critizism of her intense involvement with critizism of the Character herself.

I kinda liked WL in the EW patchcontent, but the scope in DT was horrible.

[Cleretic]

Personally, my feedback on Dawntrail is 'this is my favorite expansion, and it's not even close'. The only real negative I can give after actually finishing it is that the first trip to Shaaloani was really boring, but if the biggest negative I've got is that a part was boring, then that's a damn sight over what I can say about any other expansion, whose negatives for me range from 'actively time-wastingly tedious' to 'infuriating'.

I think it's really interesting to see what Dawntrail doesn't do compared to what we've usually had. It avoided any opportunity to namedrop the usual touchstone figures, it avoided making any back-reference louder than it needed to. In particular I realized that the only reference to the Ascians/Convocation was blink-and-you-miss-it, and so minor that it didn't even get a spoken line. Dawntrail is very quietly but firmly drawing a line and saying that the past is the past--and importantly, it's treating the past differently than the game before it has, and honestly I love it. It's also a story that's crystal-clear about the themes it wants to be about, which I love: this expansion is explicitly about death, legacy and people's relationships with it, and it covers every single part of the expansion.

And Wuk Lamat's great for the role she holds. Dawntrail is her story, more than any other expansion has been any character's, and she shoulders that weight admirably. Yeah, she's not a character everyone will love, but no character would be, and the people she works for are feasting right now. She's definitely my favorite of the 'major' characters, who have to spread their characterization and appeal across pretty much the entire expansion. I think that's an important divide to consider, honestly: like, Bakool Ja Ja is among my favorite characters in Dawntrail, but his entire appeal hinges on basically one single scene that they absolutely nail; Wuk Lamat has to sell probably over a dozen different scenes across the expansion, in like four different ways.

[honest_psycho]

She's definitely my favorite of the 'major' characters, who have to spread their characterization and appeal across pretty much the entire expansion.

But did it have to be the ENTIRE Expansion? Her Arc was pretty much done after she was crowned (or arguably after ZoraalJas Bossfight).
What exactly is her role after that in the story?

The entire conflict about Sphene and Alexandria was about how the few Endless are draining so much either, that they basically have o drain all the shards, destroying all life on them.
This is a problem in the league of what the Worrior of Light and Scions are usually dealing with.
Why is WukLamats so important here? Why was it not Erenville and Krile who supported us against Sphene? They had to delete their parents, they have more emotional "stakes" in this than WukLamat.

Please elaborate why she absolutley HAD to be front and center until the very end, I honestly don't understand.