Final fight too hard?

[Asiaine]

Succesfully defeated Raven with a (mostly) random pick-up party. Took a few attempts but was not at all hard.

However, participants WILL need to be good at their job. (Good does not mean tripple melded DL gear... you don't even need double meld). Know how to stand where told. Know how to cycle through your skills. Know how to conserve MP.

If someone is having a lot of trouble beating this thing, then chances are that it is due to the skill level of the individuals, and nothing more.

[Alerith]

Succesfully defeated Raven with a (mostly) random pick-up party. Took a few attempts but was not at all hard.

However, participants WILL need to be good at their job. (Good does not mean tripple melded DL gear... you don't even need double meld). Know how to stand where told. Know how to cycle through your skills. Know how to conserve MP.

If someone is having a lot of trouble beating this thing, then chances are that it is due to the skill level of the individuals, and nothing more.

In before Azury claims "But Casuals don't have skills!". Seeing as he likes to misrepresent the Casual crowd.

[Andrien]

defeated him with my party a few hours ago, and most of them was first timers.

Thank you. You know who are. /bow

[Mikita]

It is essentially a boss fight so it should be somewhat difficult.

But being the end of a story that all players should be able to enjoy -- and with no loot at stake -- perhaps it would have been nice to make this battle scalable and thus possible for groups of 3 or 4 to complete as well.

That said, it took us about 12+ tries to learn the fight and finally beat him. The most difficult part was just learning the phases of the fight. Once you understand them it is actually quite easy for a boss fight. It is completely doable with AF and single-melded gear as long as people understand their role in the party.

And the struggle before eventually succeeding made the ending cut scene very, very sweet indeed.
Definitely one of the happiest, most satisfying moments I have had in this game. ^^

[ToxicFox]

I enjoyed the last fight a lot. Our party setup was 2 war 2 brd 2 whm 2 blm. I don't think anyone was extremely well geared and I was on whm which I don't play very often. Party was 3 people from a social shell and randoms. Won in three tries cause I said I was hungry on the last try and I don't think anyone wanted to wait for me to make food. =P

[Alerith]

Notice Azury has stopped trying to defend his weak position and moved on to trolling other topics?

Well played forums. Well played.

[Azurymber]

Notice Azury has stopped trying to defend his weak position and moved on to trolling other topics?

Well played forums. Well played.

It's not like i'm making an absolute statement.
I Pointed out a logical argument.

If a game's goal is to make money.
It is in the interest of the game to attract as many players as possible
If a hard fight (and even here people said they needed multiple attempts which are nearly 30min each) turns people away
then the hard fight is bad for the continued success of the game.


I never said hard fights are bad.
I said story content in this game should be a cakewalk (like the original mission was) so that people can just log on for 40 min, experience the end of the story, and then transition to 2.0.

Personally I think that the last month of ffxiv should be free, and all content and dungeons should get a damage modifier slider so people can set the difficulty. This would let people return for a month, experience all XIV has to offer, and then -want- to play 2.0 more. (obviously if you use the slider you don't get achievements, gear, etc. its just to experience the story and world before it disappears)

This game is currently about making sure 2.0 isn't another failure. Because if it is, everyone suffers.

[ToxicFox]

It's not like i'm making an absolute statement.
I Pointed out a logical argument.

If a game's goal is to make money.
It is in the interest of the game to attract as many players as possible
If a hard fight (and even here people said they needed multiple attempts which are nearly 30min each) turns people away
then the hard fight is bad for the continued success of the game.


I never said hard fights are bad.
I said story content in this game should be a cakewalk (like the original mission was) so that people can just log on for 40 min, experience the end of the story, and then transition to 2.0.

Personally I think that the last month of ffxiv should be free, and all content and dungeons should get a damage modifier slider so people can set the difficulty. This would let people return for a month, experience all XIV has to offer, and then -want- to play 2.0 more. (obviously if you use the slider you don't get achievements, gear, etc. its just to experience the story and world before it disappears)

This game is currently about making sure 2.0 isn't another failure. Because if it is, everyone suffers.

Content finder should deal with most of these issues come 2.0 so there isn't really a need for them to be dealt with now. The story right now is to keep the people who are still playing entertained until 2.0. I don't want everything to be easy mode just to make the people who play 2-5 hours a week happy and the dev team would probably have a hard time making a easy mode option right now with the current system. Perhaps they should make it so we can parley with him?

[Alerith]

It's not like i'm making an absolute statement.
I Pointed out a logical argument.

Except you aren't making a logical argument, and here is why:

If a hard fight (and even here people said they needed multiple attempts which are nearly 30min each) turns people away
then the hard fight is bad for the continued success of the game.

False.

There is also crowds of people who
1) Wanted a good boss fight to end a storyline. A pushover boss fight is not a good boss fight.
2) Enjoy a challenge.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, these people also pay subscription fees. So by making the fight too easy, you're alienating another entire section of the playerbase.

I never said hard fights are bad.
I said story content in this game should be a cakewalk (like the original mission was) so that people can just log on for 40 min, experience the end of the story, and then transition to 2.0.

Why? Why should anything be handed to you? This was the final boss of a quest line, not some marmot roaming around Thanalan. Why should everyone else suffer with weak content because you don't feel like putting effort into doing something?

Personally I think that the last month of ffxiv should be free, ...

You talk and talk about how this game needs players (because you need players for the game to make money) and then you say a part of it's live time should be free? Even after the extremely large amount of time the game was already free? C'mon now, at least try and think.

...and all content and dungeons should get a damage modifier slider so people can set the difficulty. This would let people return for a month, experience all XIV has to offer, and then -want- to play 2.0 more. (obviously if you use the slider you don't get achievements, gear, etc. its just to experience the story and world before it disappears)

If difficulty is adjusted to be easier just so players can clear the 1.0 content to transition to 2.0, it does nothing more than give a false sense of the true difficulty level of the game. Story should not be handed to you. It's a reward just like everything else presented to you in missions. Nobody should have the right to just breeze through it.

This game is currently about making sure 2.0 isn't another failure.

False. The game is currently about keeping the 1.0 playerbase happy and entertained while releasing information about 2.0 as it becomes finalized. Anyone who comes back right now is experiencing nothing that 2.0 is offering, and they won't until the beta for said update is released.

This fight isn't even as hard as you're making it out to be. Party after party of pickup groups are clearing this fight in an extremely low number of runs. If you can't spare the time to fail because you have to actually use strategy, rather than faceroll the whole fight, then not only is this fight not for you, this game isn't for you and 2.0 will not be for you.

If you're an impatient, lazy, under-skilled player, then so be it. But do not drag this game into the abyss with you just because you're too lazy to actually do content at the level it was designed to be done at.

If you cannot accept this, then leave and find a game more suited to your playstyle, because this is a goddamn Final Fantasy game, and there is no reason it should be watered down for the likes incapable and incompetent players like you.

[Azurymber]

Except you aren't making a logical argument, and here is why:



False.

There is also crowds of people who
1) Wanted a good boss fight to end a storyline. A pushover boss fight is not a good boss fight.
2) Enjoy a challenge.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, these people also pay subscription fees. So by making the fight too easy, you're alienating another entire section of the playerbase.



Why? Why should anything be handed to you? This was the final boss of a quest line, not some marmot roaming around Thanalan. Why should everyone else suffer with weak content because you don't feel like putting effort into doing something?



You talk and talk about how this game needs players (because you need players for the game to make money) and then you say a part of it's live time should be free? Even after the extremely large amount of time the game was already free? C'mon now, at least try and think.



If difficulty is adjusted to be easier just so players can clear the 1.0 content to transition to 2.0, it does nothing more than give a false sense of the true difficulty level of the game. Story should not be handed to you. It's a reward just like everything else presented to you in missions. Nobody should have the right to just breeze through it.



False. The game is currently about keeping the 1.0 playerbase happy and entertained while releasing information about 2.0 as it becomes finalized. Anyone who comes back right now is experiencing nothing that 2.0 is offering, and they won't until the beta for said update is released.

This fight isn't even as hard as you're making it out to be. Party after party of pickup groups are clearing this fight in an extremely low number of runs. If you can't spare the time to fail because you have to actually use strategy, rather than faceroll the whole fight, then not only is this fight not for you, this game isn't for you and 2.0 will not be for you.

If you're an impatient, lazy, under-skilled player, then so be it. But do not drag this game into the abyss with you just because you're too lazy to actually do content at the level it was designed to be done at.

If you cannot accept this, then leave and find a game more suited to your playstyle, because this is a goddamn Final Fantasy game, and there is no reason it should be watered down for the likes incapable and incompetent players like you.

I fully understand wanting a hard boss, but you can give the option for people to choose easy mode or hard mode, and then give a bonus for completing it on hard mode (ex. item), maybe even an extra 30 seconds of cut-scenes.

It is economic logic to give something away for free if it benefits you in the long run. SE is a large corporation so they can afford not having ffxiv revenue for a few months. So if letting people come back for a month to play for free and experience this game, and then letting them play 2.0 a month for free ends up getting more players than if you charge, you should do it.
Since this game has a horrid reputation, a month of 1.0 free (with the ability to easy-mode content) will satisfy a lot of players who may not want to play 2.0 thinking they missed the story in 1.0 and won't understand whats going on. For example, most people wouldn't want to play mass effect 2 without ever playing mass effect. Some will, but most won't.
And a month of 2.0 free would let people skeptical about the game try it out and get hooked.

Why should things be handed to people? They shouldn't. But a lot of players will avoid playing what is essentially a sequel knowing that they missed the first part. It's like walking into a movie theater halfway through a movie. Personally I wouldn't ever touch an MMO that was more than 2months old (at least the english version) unless I had started playing at launch. LOTS of people are like this. So handing these type of people the story and experience (not items) can drastically increase the population of 2.0. If people got to experience the new fight they might think "wow... if 2.0 has this it will be amazing" and look forward to it. As opposed to "hey i remember ffxiv.... yeah... giant buffalo. 2.0 will probably suck that hard"

in 2.0 the fights -should- be hard. But this game won't exist in a few months. So everyone in game now and everyone what wants to, should get the opportunity to experience the story and fight.

Oh and by the way i personally find the fight easy (aside from blms constantly screwing up meteors). I had no issues tanking it or playing as bard. The thread was specifically about the fight being too hard for casuals who are only still with the game for the story or to see what happens before 2.0 but don't necessarily like the current game or care to play. (ex. the people who return for a week after new content to finish the content and then go back to some other mmo)

Just because someone doesn't have 3 hours straight to spend time playing a game doesn't make them lazy. Maybe it means they have a life! Remember, when this game launched it was marketed as a game where you could play solo and casual (leves, ability to MAIN as a crafter or gatherer and complete the entire storyline as one)