Major accessibility issue with Viper

[Cinedo]

I'm not sure how many people this speaks for, it might just be me, but I've always really struggled at connecting icons to meaning - I have a similar (though much smaller) issue with faces, but icons are the big one, especially in MMOs where they tend to look quite similar and all blend together a bit.

That doesn't normally stop me from playing, I've done some savage raids in XIV and equivalent things in a couple of other MMOs and not really had an issue because the position of the buttons on the screen (and on my keyboard) negates that problem.

Then we got Viper. This is the very first class in any game I've played that I legitimately cannot follow because, for some unknowable reason, its 8-part combo is reduced to 2 buttons that not only change but you're meant to weave between depending on what step you're at. Never once had an issue with freeform SAM in ShB, no issues with MNK or DRG, but I just can't follow this one, the buttons lose meaning within a couple of cycles, I don't understand how this was a conscious decision and got through testing. I understand that the option to combine it helps some people as it reduces button bloat, but I strongly feel that doing so at the cost of some people being able to use the class at all is not a good trade. Especially that, even accessibility issues aside, you can't lay things out on a hotbar and see what things do while planning out what order to click them in, where you can organise them in a progression as you learn the rotation. You need to either have the already ordered Abilities screen open and read them and try to remember when they happen (again, big issue for some people with that) or you need to click a button, read what the next step is, click it, read what that does, then try to formulate your memory of what you clicked into a rotation (which, yes, is many times worse).

We've been given the ability to split other combined buttons that have 2 abilities sharing a button - why isn't this the case for the massive 4 abilities that then need to be combined between each other in VPR?

So, please, give us the ability to split that horrendously massive stack up into separate buttons. With PvP, I've just avoided it entirely for this reason and it doesn't impact the main chunk of the game, but this is seriously affecting my (and I suspect a few other peoples') ability to play one of the new highlight classes in the game. That's not really acceptable given how there's an extremely easy fix that was implemented in this very update to the game, just not applied to (arguably) the main button stack that suffers from it. By all means, keep it combined by default, I'm sure that helps a number of people too. But forcing it to be combined when the icons are this similar is kind of baffling.

[Nothv13]

Viper is quite literally just press button that glows. The only time that ability icons might make a difference is is you care heavily about hitting the positional correctly. I struggled with the same issue until I just started following the ability that glows, it leads you through all the combos, even highlighting to use the buff abilities that have the lower time remaining so you refresh it instead of the one with more time remaining. Seriously, unless trying to min/max, do not over think it and just follow the glow.

[Cinedo]

That helps a lot, thanks! But there are also situations where both light up, and besides I do like to min/max as much as I can. I really enjoy that part of the game, and it'd be such a shame to be unable to play optimally on a well-designed class purely because of a terrible visual-design decision.

[Kabooa]

That helps a lot, thanks! But there are also situations where both light up, and besides I do like to min/max as much as I can. I really enjoy that part of the game, and it'd be such a shame to be unable to play optimally on a well-designed class purely because of a terrible visual-design decision.

When both actions light up, it's because you do not have a buff that empowers one of them.

[Taliriah]

The only time that ability icons might make a difference is is you care heavily about hitting the positional correctly.

I also remember which is which from of their position on my bars and which keybind each use. I literally don't care about the icons or even the ability names. Heck, I never even remember the names.

[Cinedo]

I also remember which is which from of their position on my bars and which keybind each use. I literally don't care about the icons or even the ability names. Heck, I never even remember the names.

Yeah I think I worded the original message wrong, that's also what I do to keep track of the normal combo. Different slots on the hotbar = different effects, same for different keystrokes (ctrl + 2 = debuff enemy for example). The icons are meaningless to me. I think it might be possible to think of this as a fighting game combo (A+A+B+A) and memorise all the combos so I can play optimally, but it's still very easy for me to forget where I just was in the combo since I can't see my character very well in busy bossfights with mechanics I should be looking at, and (rather than meaningful positions) I have (what to me are) meaningless icons to tell me where I am, which doesn't help in the slightest.

But yeah, the main points here are:
- Inexcusably bad onboarding, where you have to pause and reach what abilities do OR have a poorly organised Abilities screen to read from. "Inexcusably" because they have the solution in the very update that game with this class.
- No way to keep track of where you are if you have any visual or attention problems, especially if you have both.
- Need to memorise every combo (which doesn't matter if you lose your place anyway) if you have the above issues, since the icons tell you nothing at that point.

Again, extremely easy fix that already exists so absolutely no reason not to use it.
And I really appreciate all the tips! I'll try to implement them and see if they help

[Henber]

But yeah, the main points here are:
- Inexcusably bad onboarding, where you have to pause and reach what abilities do OR have a poorly organised Abilities screen to read from. "Inexcusably" because they have the solution in the very update that game with this class.
- No way to keep track of where you are if you have any visual or attention problems, especially if you have both.
- Need to memorise every combo (which doesn't matter if you lose your place anyway) if you have the above issues, since the icons tell you nothing at that point.

I'm sorry brother but not every job is for everyone. If you don't like it, don't play it. Same as I, that don't play BLM or MNK, nor any healers or tanks. Pick what you like instead of changing what you don't understand.

[Taliriah]

- No way to keep track of where you are if you have any visual or attention problems, especially if you have both.
- Need to memorise every combo (which doesn't matter if you lose your place anyway) if you have the above issues, since the icons tell you nothing at that point.

You haven't played long enough to make this judgment (no one have). These problems (which, spoiler alert, everyone have at first) will disappear as you get used to play and muscle memory kicks in. Surely during your entire life you have noticed that this is how new skills that you learn become easy over time?

"I can't play the job proficiently after a couple days THIS IS A MAJOR ACCESSIBILITY ISSUE". The job is getting ruined because SE is stupid enough to listen to this kind of drivel. Good job. Thanks.

[Mikey_R]

I struggled with the same issue until I just started following the ability that glows, it leads you through all the combos, even highlighting to use the buff abilities that have the lower time remaining so you refresh it instead of the one with more time remaining.

Slight correction, the second step highlight does not track your attack or speed buff, it instead leads you to the correct final step so that you can get the buffed final action without issue.

You can test this yourself, if you start with the attack buff, doing the full combo, then use the Dreadwinder combo, starting with the speed buff, then the attack buff, then, when you next get to the second step, you will find your attack button is highlighted, despite the speed buff having less on it's timer.

As for the actual combo enders themselves, they alternate between flank and rear positionals. Attack buff takes you to flank, speed takes you to rear. After a flank combo, you will use the same fang for your rear combo. Once you use a rear combo, you will always use the opposite fang.

[wereotter]

The only time that ability icons might make a difference is is you care heavily about hitting the positional correctly.

Also unless you're red-green color blind, the game helps you out here too. It's only the third move in the combos that have a positional requirement, and when they change for the third skill, the icons turn red if you need to do a rear positional and green if it's flank. This only applies to the base combos and not the other moves that have requirements, but it's still a visual queue I found that helped me get it right.

Though to the original point, I do kind of agree that it seems like there's no real reason to have the job have 8 skills in its base combo if they're going to just be condensed into 2 buttons. Feels a lot like the devs going for "look how flashy this is" while having very little input from the player to get you there.