I believe I finally understood why some people have issues with Dawntrail

[ravenfyhre]

To sum it up, it's probably the way the team does fetch quests.
I think YoshiP almost always goes for a safe route in order to not compromise the release date and the overall quality of the product, but that means there are corners to be cut for something to be released in proper time.

For example, mini-games are usually the same 2 or 3 like spotting waldo or playing hide and seek.

Now, let's us imagine an ideal scenario where the team has infinite resources and time:
- I never liked the story of FF7 (original or otherwise) but I enjoyed how they implemented a lot of mini-games for every small quest on 7 rebirth.
This might not be feasible on FFXIV if you have to re-use content since it's an MMO and there are some limitations to it, but man... It would have been great if every fetch quest had a mini-game associated with it feeling more like you are playing a small fun game instead of simply reading a text and moving from A to B.
For example, if gathering is required, maybe re-using mini-games from the golden saucer like "Out on a Limb" to cut down trees could be possible, or maybe things like simple (not so complex) jumping puzzle games like in GATEs, chocobo racing, etc~
Or even steal some ideas from Nintendo games? xD

There could or could not be harder options, but essentially enjoying the journey could potentially ease some of the worries of people who think the story is slow because you tend to focus on a smaller goal at a time.

Alas, I personally do not dislike slow burns and I understand this is too resource heavy for a team that is already trying to deal with a graphical update.
So I thought that this was probably the main reason some people had issues not only with the way some quests are done in FFXIV but also in FFXVI.

[Aldath]

Honestly it's a matter of creativity. Being creative here means being able to solve those issues with the tools at hand. If FFXVI proved something is that Yoshida might have leadership skills, but his game design philosophy is as you say: safe and dated.

Take a look at how GW2 deals with the leveling part of the story: You get to do MSQ segments every 10 levels, and the level cap is 80. There's plenty of quests in those segments but most of them have gameplay in them. How do you level up? You do Hearts, which are essentially static FATEs that can be done only once per player and essentially act as yellow quests, presenting lore in a "show, don't tell" style; you can also participate in Events (FATEs with other name) and most importantly, exploring and discovering stuff, meaning that filling the map is actually satisfying and fun.

This particular style of storytelling world have worked wonders for DT and for the whole "vacation and adventure" narrative that was promised. You can't tell me they couldn't have done the same with the resources they have.

[Tethan]

To sum it up, it's probably the way the team does fetch quests.

I see, I thought it was because of the awful amateurish writing, the horrible pacing, the insufferable Mary Sue being shoved in my face every five minutes or how old favorite characters have been completely lobotomized, but I see now that I was wrong and actually it's just because of fetch quests which comprise less than 5% of the time spent are mildly annoying.

Minigames would solve every problem, it is true.

Thanks for opening my eyes to this.

[KageTokage]

The problems are multi-faceted, but XIV's quest structure has always felt very dull and dated by modern MMO standards.

It's just exasperated by almost everything surrounding it being below average this go-around.

[Larirawiel]

The main error is: they have tight the entire expansion to Wuk Lamat. If you do not like her then it ruins the entire expansion for you. It is like having a more extreme version of Lyse, the entire SB expansion. And i guess, many more people would hate SB.

But there are more problems: huge plotholes, illogical and stupid protagonist/antagonist behavior etc.




Cheers

[ravenfyhre]

Sorry, I can't really comment for the entire MSQ right now since I'm still on the first 2 starting zones, but merely speaking about this particular issue.
Also, about the mary sue thing. It's probably less noticeable for me since I don't play in English (This seems to be a common point of discussion for people using English VAs, but maybe I'm wrong) and Wuk Lamat seems more like a standard troupe so far.
Honestly, so far, I would prefer either of her brothers to grow and win.

[Aldath]

I see, I thought it was because of the awful amateurish writing, the horrible pacing, the insufferable Mary Sue being shoved in my face every five minutes or how old favorite characters have been completely lobotomized, but I see now that I was wrong and actually it's just because of fetch quests which comprise less than 5% of the time spent are mildly annoying.

Minigames would solve every problem, it is true.

Thanks for opening my eyes to this.

Because that way if you skip the god awful story at least there works be an actual game. OP is just using minigames as an example.

You can skip the horrid plot and still have to deal with hours of walking without anything interesting happening in between. Skipping the cutscenes you still have 2 to 3 hours of what amounts to nothing before the first dungeon.

[Tethan]

Because that way if you skip the god awful story at least there works be an actual game. OP is just using minigames as an example.

You can skip the horrid plot and still have to deal with hours of walking without anything interesting happening in between. Skipping the cutscenes you still have 2 to 3 hours of what amounts to nothing before the first dungeon.

The thing is that the MSQ is the major draw of the launch period. Why do you think the raids aren't released until later? To give people time to complete the story. The story takes precedence over everything else in this game.

How much of the budget is put towards the story? The writing, animations, voiceworks etc etc. A lot, I bet. This is BIG deal and FFXIV is billed as THE story focused MMO, if skipping is optimal, indeed the only tolerable way to play, something has gone very, very wrong. I've been around for every launch since Stormblood, I have never seen anything like this.

I'm all for improving the MSQ gameplay, but "just skip" is not an acceptable solution.

[Nucah]

The thing is that the MSQ is the major draw of the launch period. Why do you think the raids aren't released until later? To give people time to complete the story. The story takes precedence over everything else in this game.

How much of the budget is put towards the story? The writing, animations, voiceworks etc etc. A lot, I bet. This is BIG deal and FFXIV is billed as THE story focused MMO, if skipping is optimal, indeed the only tolerable way to play, something has gone very, very wrong. I've been around for every launch since Stormblood, I have never seen anything like this.

I'm all for improving the MSQ gameplay, but "just skip" is not an acceptable solution.

Completely agree with you.

[Aldath]

The thing is that the MSQ is the major draw of the launch period. Why do you think the raids aren't released until later? To give people time to complete the story. The story takes precedence over everything else in this game.

How much of the budget is put towards the story? The writing, animations, voiceworks etc etc. A lot, I bet. This is BIG deal and FFXIV is billed as THE story focused MMO, if skipping is optimal, indeed the only tolerable way to play, something has gone very, very wrong. I've been around for every launch since Stormblood, I have never seen anything like this.

I'm all for improving the MSQ gameplay, but "just skip" is not an acceptable solution.

And I agree with you. What I suggest is just a band aid solution.
I believe a good game with a bad plot still remains a good game, but it's true we're paying for the full package and they expect us to care being that we spend a lot of time in them.

I just hope this is a wanna up call for both the fan base and the dev team.