I believe I finally understood why some people have issues with Dawntrail

[ravenfyhre]

To sum it up, it's probably the way the team does fetch quests.
I think YoshiP almost always goes for a safe route in order to not compromise the release date and the overall quality of the product, but that means there are corners to be cut for something to be released in proper time.

For example, mini-games are usually the same 2 or 3 like spotting waldo or playing hide and seek.

Now, let's us imagine an ideal scenario where the team has infinite resources and time:
- I never liked the story of FF7 (original or otherwise) but I enjoyed how they implemented a lot of mini-games for every small quest on 7 rebirth.
This might not be feasible on FFXIV if you have to re-use content since it's an MMO and there are some limitations to it, but man... It would have been great if every fetch quest had a mini-game associated with it feeling more like you are playing a small fun game instead of simply reading a text and moving from A to B.
For example, if gathering is required, maybe re-using mini-games from the golden saucer like "Out on a Limb" to cut down trees could be possible, or maybe things like simple (not so complex) jumping puzzle games like in GATEs, chocobo racing, etc~
Or even steal some ideas from Nintendo games? xD

There could or could not be harder options, but essentially enjoying the journey could potentially ease some of the worries of people who think the story is slow because you tend to focus on a smaller goal at a time.

Alas, I personally do not dislike slow burns and I understand this is too resource heavy for a team that is already trying to deal with a graphical update.
So I thought that this was probably the main reason some people had issues not only with the way some quests are done in FFXIV but also in FFXVI.

[Aldath]

Honestly it's a matter of creativity. Being creative here means being able to solve those issues with the tools at hand. If FFXVI proved something is that Yoshida might have leadership skills, but his game design philosophy is as you say: safe and dated.

Take a look at how GW2 deals with the leveling part of the story: You get to do MSQ segments every 10 levels, and the level cap is 80. There's plenty of quests in those segments but most of them have gameplay in them. How do you level up? You do Hearts, which are essentially static FATEs that can be done only once per player and essentially act as yellow quests, presenting lore in a "show, don't tell" style; you can also participate in Events (FATEs with other name) and most importantly, exploring and discovering stuff, meaning that filling the map is actually satisfying and fun.

This particular style of storytelling world have worked wonders for DT and for the whole "vacation and adventure" narrative that was promised. You can't tell me they couldn't have done the same with the resources they have.

[elizeugba]

Honestly it's a matter of creativity. Being creative here means being able to solve those issues with the tools at hand. If FFXVI proved something is that Yoshida might have leadership skills, but his game design philosophy is as you say: safe and dated.

Take a look at how GW2 deals with the leveling part of the story: You get to do MSQ segments every 10 levels, and the level cap is 80. There's plenty of quests in those segments but most of them have gameplay in them. How do you level up? You do Hearts, which are essentially static FATEs that can be done only once per player and essentially act as yellow quests, presenting lore in a "show, don't tell" style; you can also participate in Events (FATEs with other name) and most importantly, exploring and discovering stuff, meaning that filling the map is actually satisfying and fun.

This particular style of storytelling world have worked wonders for DT and for the whole "vacation and adventure" narrative that was promised. You can't tell me they couldn't have done the same with the resources they have.

Please for the love of God let's not use the wacky GW2 base game MSQ system. I play GW2 since it's release back in 2012 and the change they made in the base game MSQ to be every 10 levels is one of the most hurtful things they did to new players, even anet admitted it wasn't a good choice. That is one of the biggest reasons why most ppl quit before lvl 80 in GW2.

[GrizzlyTank]

Please for the love of God let's not use the wacky GW2 base game MSQ system. I play GW2 since it's release back in 2012 and the change they made in the base game MSQ to be every 10 levels is one of the most hurtful things they did to new players, even anet admitted it wasn't a good choice. That is one of the biggest reasons why most ppl quit before lvl 80 in GW2.

Yeah, the 2nd expansion and it's following patches story was fun, albeit a bit rushed some places.

First half of icebrood was great too... but then the quality tanked for some reason.

[Tethan]

To sum it up, it's probably the way the team does fetch quests.

I see, I thought it was because of the awful amateurish writing, the horrible pacing, the insufferable Mary Sue being shoved in my face every five minutes or how old favorite characters have been completely lobotomized, but I see now that I was wrong and actually it's just because of fetch quests which comprise less than 5% of the time spent are mildly annoying.

Minigames would solve every problem, it is true.

Thanks for opening my eyes to this.

[Larirawiel]

The main error is: they have tight the entire expansion to Wuk Lamat. If you do not like her then it ruins the entire expansion for you. It is like having a more extreme version of Lyse, the entire SB expansion. And i guess, many more people would hate SB.

But there are more problems: huge plotholes, illogical and stupid protagonist/antagonist behavior etc.




Cheers

[Honalee]

The main error is: they have tight the entire expansion to Wuk Lamat. If you do not like her then it ruins the entire expansion for you. It is like having a more extreme version of Lyse, the entire SB expansion. And i guess, many more people would hate SB.

I never felt this in any other expansion with Lyse, or Ryne, or Hien, or any other NPC... They need to go back if they need to and see why those models were working, and get back to that. Dawntrail was such a huge step down from every other expansion in most respects in this way.

And it's not because the "story" was poor... It's because the implementation of all of it was very poor. I want to be able to enjoy FFXIV MSQ the way we have in the past... They need to make some pretty big changes and step it up in the next one.

[ravenfyhre]

Sorry, I can't really comment for the entire MSQ right now since I'm still on the first 2 starting zones, but merely speaking about this particular issue.
Also, about the mary sue thing. It's probably less noticeable for me since I don't play in English (This seems to be a common point of discussion for people using English VAs, but maybe I'm wrong) and Wuk Lamat seems more like a standard troupe so far.
Honestly, so far, I would prefer either of her brothers to grow and win.

[Rin_Sato]

Sorry, I can't really comment for the entire MSQ right now since I'm still on the first 2 starting zones

Making a thread with this title under those circumstances is pure genius.

[Darko]

I see, I thought it was because of the awful amateurish writing, the horrible pacing, the insufferable Mary Sue being shoved in my face every five minutes or how old favorite characters have been completely lobotomized, but I see now that I was wrong and actually it's just because of fetch quests which comprise less than 5% of the time spent are mildly annoying.

Minigames would solve every problem, it is true.

Thanks for opening my eyes to this.

I agree that the issues you present are the major glaring issues Dawntrail has, and that the fetch quests are a less important issue. But how you see things doesn't give you the right to respond to how others see things like that. Try opening your eyes to that.