Unpopular Opnion: Dawntrail MSQ one of the best yet! [Spoilers]

[ThorneDynasty]

Would you prefer "writer's pet"? It's a wholly semantic point.

The issues of the character exist no matter how you want to classify it.

[Malthir]

Ok, this is some puddle-deep understanding of this story, and yes, IT IS just an opinion. Judging stories by "creative writing" standards is like judging paintings by "paint-by-numbers" standard.

And the examples from Mary-sue definition basically prove that you didn't pay attention to the story. "Inexplicably competent across all domains"- no, "gifted with unique talents and powers"- no, the only unique thing about her is really that she likes peace and wants to learn about Turali cultures, "liked or respected by most other characters"- not from beginning, which means the respect she gets is earned through her actions, not just given by default. "unrealistically free of weaknesses"- she acknowledges that she's dumb and is a hothead, "extremely attractive"- in what universe? "and generally lacking meaningful character flaws"- come on now, naivety, impulsivity and gullibility are with her from the first.

You're not making the point you think you're making here.

This is why people call people like you shill and zealots. The critical feedback of this expac has been great for the most part, people have been very concise with the issues and gave examples. The die hard stan response is literally, nuh uh you just didn't read it/didn't get the genius, no examples refuting the points brought up.

Also There are literally 2 NPC's that have a negative dialogue on Wuk in the entire expac, even though she is incredibly childish and behaves irrationally and impulsive everything just works out for her. The Scions have known her for maybe a month at this point and you get a constant stream of dialogue stating, "wow Wuk was so impressive." "I'm so impressed with how Wuk handled that." "Wuk is doing so well." She is instantly loved in the dialogue by almost every major character for no reason. She's given the highest position of authority in the land without actually doing anything to earn it, no plans for how to run a country nothing just, here you deserve it because you are amazing. She fights her childhood bully and immediately kicks his ass, from no where just huge power spike and smashes his and his troops faces in.

Final point, all things have standards. Art is no different, that's why you can have judges, and while to a small degree the judgements are personal, a judge of a piece of art is looking at the technical aspect of what was done. Critique of art is not just opinion, you can like something and understand while understanding that at a technical level it's not a well done piece.

[CuteBucket]

The story treats us like children

Dawntrail stands out as the most emotionally resonant expansion in a long time, skillfully crafted for a mature audience.

Excessive exposition would have felt heavy-handed, insulting our intelligence. Conversely, too little exposition would have hindered our empathy for the characters.

Dawntrail rewards attentive players with emotional intelligence, offering a refreshing experience that respects its audience's maturity.

That's a lot of words to reply to a point with what is essentially "NUH-UH!" while giving no examples. WHY do you think it's emotionally resonant? What parts? What parts were skillfully crafted in your mind? Which parts felt like they were for a mature audience and why? When did you, as a player, feel rewarded for your emotional intelligence? What part did you feel was a fresh experience? When did you feel respected by the narrative? You say a bunch of words that sound on the surface like a review, but then fail to substantiate anything here. Most of the post is like this, but this one is the most egregious. Seriously sounds like Chat GPT wrote a good deal of this post. Too bad this is a forum and not a social media page where you get paid for clicks with ad revenue. Is this purely just to bait engagement on a forum? Well, I guess it worked on me. I'd recommend becoming a blue check on Xitter or making some incomprehensible TikToks defending the game if you want to pursue this more professionally in the future, however.

[TBerry]

That's a lot of words to reply to a point with what is essentially "NUH-UH!" while giving no examples. WHY do you think it's emotionally resonant? What parts? What parts were skillfully crafted in your mind? Which parts felt like they were for a mature audience and why? When did you, as a player, feel rewarded for your emotional intelligence? What part did you feel was a fresh experience? When did you feel respected by the narrative? You say a bunch of words that sound on the surface like a review, but then fail to substantiate anything here. Most of the post is like this, but this one is the most egregious. Seriously sounds like Chat GPT wrote a good deal of this post. Too bad this is a forum and not a social media page where you get paid for clicks with ad revenue. Is this purely just to bait engagement on a forum? Well, I guess it worked on me. I'd recommend becoming a blue check on Xitter or making some incomprehensible TikToks defending the game if you want to pursue this more professionally in the future, however.

That's a whole lotta words for "I am right you are wrong".
Whenever someone does reply, it's ignored or you try to convince them their experioence is wrong in some way. At this point you've just been parroting each other for the past few weeks.
And no one has to justify why they enjoyed what they enjoyed. You're like internet atheists on Reddit dogpiling on anyone who used the word "god" in any context at all. And probably future bans for nuisance behavior, trolling or harassment as well.

[Malthir]

That's a whole lotta words for "I am right you are wrong".
Whenever someone does reply, it's ignored. At this point you've just been parroting each other for the past few weeks.
And no one has to justify why they enjoyed what they enjoyed. At this point you're like internet atheists on Reddit dogpiling on anyone who used the word "god" in any context at all. And probably futre bans for nuisance behavior, trolling or harassment.

Would you care to point to anyone who has given any kind of actual examples as to why the criticism aimed at the writing is wrong. Also no one says you can't enjoy something. If you enjoy it cool, but it's outlandish to say it's well written when it's not. Your enjoyment and the technical skill of what is delivered do not go hand in hand.

Soap operas are loved by many, would anyone truthfully hand on heart say that 90% including some of the most popular aren't terribly written. That's the point the critiques been about, we expect better writing from the product we pay for.

[TBerry]

Would you care to point to anyone who has given any kind of actual examples as to why the criticism aimed at the writing is wrong. Also no one says you can't enjoy something. If you enjoy it cool, but it's outlandish to say it's well written when it's not. Your enjoyment and the technical skill of what is delivered do not go hand in hand.

Soap operas are loved by many, would anyone truthfully hand on heart say that 90% including some of the most popular aren't terribly written. That's the point the critiques been about, we expect better writing from the product we pay for.

Have you ever heard of the term "Sealioning"?

[genuine_stranger]

Genuinely speaking, the whole DT story didn't leave a mark on me. I can't even recall the story beats. I remember that I didn't like the focus on Wuk Lamat, the 1st trial, the 2nd trial because the music is fantastic on that one, and Sphene somewhat.
Idk if this is a good or a bad thing. I enjoyed everything from ARR to ShB, EW made me feel disappointed and frustrated that I viewed at it quite negatively.
DT on the other hand? Nothing.

[Malthir]

Have you ever heard of the term "Sealioning"?

Never heard it before so google to the rescue, it's a internet slang term for someone demanding evidence even once evidence is provided to try and weaken the other persons point of view. But that's not what's happening here as one person is claiming it's great writing, they are being asked for an example of great writing in the game and then aren't giving any. From it's definition, sealioning would be me asking the person to give and example of why the writing of the MSQ is one of the best yet, and then when they give examples, I shift the goalpost slightly and ask for further examples otherwise they are wrong. So again that's not really what's happening.

[TBerry]

Never heard it before so google to the rescue, it's a internet slang term for someone demanding evidence even once evidence is provided to try and weaken the other persons point of view. But that's not what's happening here as one person is claiming it's great writing, they are being asked for an example of great writing in the game and then aren't giving any. From it's definition, sealioning would be me asking the person to give and example of why the writing of the MSQ is one of the best yet, and then when they give examples, I shift the goalpost slightly and ask for further examples otherwise they are wrong. So again that's not really what's happening.

Which you do as OP gave examples why they think it's good writing, and let's not forget this thread OP linked. Of course, best expansion is subjectiv, and trhere are some weak points.
Think Naruto. That is nothing new.

Also, 100th reply.

[Palladiamors]

Ok, this is some puddle-deep understanding of this story, and yes, IT IS just an opinion. Judging stories by "creative writing" standards is like judging paintings by "paint-by-numbers" standard.

And the examples from Mary-sue definition basically prove that you didn't pay attention to the story. "Inexplicably competent across all domains"- no, "gifted with unique talents and powers"- no, the only unique thing about her is really that she likes peace and wants to learn about Turali cultures, "liked or respected by most other characters"- not from beginning, which means the respect she gets is earned through her actions, not just given by default. "unrealistically free of weaknesses"- she acknowledges that she's dumb and is a hothead, "extremely attractive"- in what universe? "and generally lacking meaningful character flaws"- come on now, naivety, impulsivity and gullibility are with her from the first.

You're not making the point you think you're making here.

Wuk Lamat is kidnapped by NORMAL BANDITS then just a few levels later defeats not only a rare breed of a race known SPECIFICALLY for being extremely powerful but half an army of the bandits who kidnapped her earlier and four experienced fighters. There is zero explanation for why. No training arc, no mystical explanation, she just can.

Later, she BREAKS THROUGH A BARRIER THAT WAS STRONG ENOUGH TO HOLD THE CRYSTAL EXARCH AND PUNCHES THE FINAL BOSS IN THE FACE. Once again, no explanation given, no reason why she should be able to do this when even Graham couldn't, she just does it.

It's never stated or even hinted that she has any special aptitude for magic or that she should be that much stronger than anyone else. She never actually loses or is responsible for anything in the story going wrong. She never develops, she approaches every situation at the end of the story the same way she does at the end. Everyone loves her for absolutely no reason and praises her constantly and all of her ideas just work out.

I typically love Shonen style characters. Black Clover, Naruto, Bleach, Fire Force, the list goes on. But those characters usually have humble beginnings, experience hardships and failure, and you can track their growth as their series continues. They get called out for their failures and often have to admit they were wrong or try a different approach.

Wuk Lamat suffers one attack that killed a grand total of fifty people and had a town forcibly annexed by a well meaning ruler who treated them fairly. None of that ever bites her or was even her fault at all. She gets kidnapped in the most ridiculously forced way possible but fixed that a little later with only positive consequences.

I could go on but you're not listening.