Pictomancer is insanely overtuned and needs to be fixed before savage drops.

[ForteNightshade]

I would love to see where you’re getting your numbers. SAM and VPR are both beating PCT for nDPS (as they should).

Once you factor in rDPS, the numbers are all extremely close for PCT with the non phys range, nonSMN/RDM DPS. rDPS literally exists for nonSAM, nonBLM jobs. It takes their buffs into consideration so that people can see the number they actually contributed to a fight.

As others have said, the devs have been transparent around the fact that they do tax the damage of red mage and summoner for their Rez. I hate it too, but it’s the reality. The fact remains that PCT should deal similar damage to the nonVPR/SAM DPS.

cDPS is the better metric to use when comparing jobs to one another per FFlogs' on description.

cDPS allows you compare how well you and your raid played into burst windows and AOE buffs. It's a good way to look at job balance between eachother, and seeing which jobs have strong buffs while also providing good damage during other job's AOE buff windows.

With that in mind, the discrepancy becomes far more apparent. Picto is top DPS even amongst the melee. Where they to buff Black Mage to a comparable level, you'd legitimately have zero reason to bring any of the phys range since a double melee/caster comp would deal higher damage in spite of the party buff.

[Poppet]

People 100% drop 1/2 melee for 2 Caster, 1 Melee, 1 Ranged. Not because efficiency but job preference. With Picto's high popularity I could see dual Picto happening like early shb with blm just because 5.0 smn was that bad.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

People 100% drop 1/2 melee for 2 Caster, 1 Melee, 1 Ranged. Not because efficiency but job preference. With Picto's high popularity I could see dual Picto happening like early shb with blm just because 5.0 smn was that bad.

I don't never remember a time where ppl took two BLM over a smn or Rdm. I was a smn main back in shb never once did I see pfs not have a smn or Rdm. I remember very well having to hurt for over a hour for a spot bc most pfs had already had a smn or Rdm in them.

So no I don't think you see dual Picto especially if they end up nerfing it to have smn/Rdm numbers. Even if it's popular. Ppl will still want a rez mage over any other caster and most likely rather have a BLM or a 2nd melee in the flex spot over a heavy nerfed pico. The fact is Picto will always lose out to a smn or Rdm bc it doesn't have a rez meaning the only way ppl will want one is if it has similar DPS as a non selfish melee job.

[Poppet]

I don't never remember a time where ppl took two BLM over a smn or Rdm. I was a smn main back in shb never once did I see pfs not have a smn or Rdm. I remember very well having to hurt for over a hour for a spot bc most pfs had already had a smn or Rdm in them.

So no I don't think you see dual Picto especially if they end up nerfing it to have smn/Rdm numbers. Even if it's popular. Ppl will still want a rez mage over any other caster and most likely rather have a BLM or a 2nd melee in the flex spot over a heavy nerfed pico. The fact is Picto will always lose out to a smn or Rdm bc it doesn't have a rez meaning the only way ppl will want one is if it has similar DPS as a non selfish melee job.

BLM was the most used caster in Eden's Gate up to the point they fixed 5.0 smn and gave it more damage. This was back in a era where having less people alive made the mechanics easier not impossible and damage that much more important as a result. Picto does enough damage to warrant not taking a melee dps and possibly use two. Fights with bad melee uptime in particular will see picto as the top dps. Consider they're using smaller hitboxes again for Black Cat this will become an incredibly realistic outcome.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

BLM was the most used caster in Eden's Gate up to the point they fixed 5.0 smn and gave it more damage. This was back in a era where having less people alive made the mechanics easier not impossible and damage that much more important as a result. Picto does enough damage to warrant not taking a melee dps and possibly use two. Fights with bad melee uptime in particular will see picto as the top dps. Consider they're using smaller hitboxes again for Black Cat this will become an incredibly realistic outcome.

Yeah as long they don't nuke pico dam but most of the ppl who wants nerfs to pico wants it to be nuke to rdm/smn levels. If that happens they wont be picked over a 2nd melee even if melee uptime is bad. Thats the point most of us are trying to make here that for pico to have a chance going forward it need to do dps close to a nonSAM/VRP melee dps. Meaning it needs to stay near MNK/RPR/NIN/DRG levels of damage. If it gets knocked down to RDM/SMN levels no one will want it and just take a a rez mage for the rez and BLM/2nd Melee for the flex spot. Im fine with picto being slightly nerf and BLM getting a deserve buff but Im not fine with nuking the picto to be worst smn/rdm. We finally have a caster who doesn't have to deal with the whole rez tax and be a good middle ground between RDM/SMN and BLM but ppl want to ruin that bc they don't want a another caster have similar numbers to a melee. I said it once and I will continue to say it...caster is the worst balance role in ff14 all bc of the dumb rez tax. I still want ff14 to delete smn/rdm rez so balancing this role is better. You don't see this issue with melee bc melee doesn't have to deal with a rez tax.

[CaedemSanguis]

Yeah as long they don't nuke pico dam but most of the ppl who wants nerfs to pico wants it to be nuke to rdm/smn levels. If that happens they wont be picked over a 2nd melee even if melee uptime is bad. Thats the point most of us are trying to make here that for pico to have a chance going forward it need to do dps close to a nonSAM/VRP melee dps. Meaning it needs to stay near MNK/RPR/NIN/DRG levels of damage. If it gets knocked down to RDM/SMN levels no one will want it and just take a a rez mage for the rez and BLM/2nd Melee for the flex spot. Im fine with picto being slightly nerf and BLM getting a deserve buff but Im not fine with nuking the picto to be worst smn/rdm. We finally have a caster who doesn't have to deal with the whole rez tax and be a good middle ground between RDM/SMN and BLM but ppl want to ruin that bc they don't want a another caster have similar numbers to a melee. I said it once and I will continue to say it...caster is the worst balance role in ff14 all bc of the dumb rez tax. I still want ff14 to delete smn/rdm rez so balancing this role is better. You don't see this issue with melee bc melee doesn't have to deal with a rez tax.

well, pct have party's utility + raid buff
picto should be a bit behind RPR/DRG/NIN/etc

for the caster spot, group will need to choose between : blm = max damage (and by max damage, I mean blm adps > picto rdps), pct = high damage with utility, smn = low dmg but rez, rdm = very low damage but free rez

for the highest adps class, to my mind it should be : viper (hard positional + no shield) > blm (long cast + lack of mobility) > sam (shield + less positional to do compared to viper), but it's just my opinion, as long as those 3 have the highest adps (mch should be a bit behind since ranged)

[Sequora]

People 100% drop 1/2 melee for 2 Caster, 1 Melee, 1 Ranged. Not because efficiency but job preference. With Picto's high popularity I could see dual Picto happening like early shb with blm just because 5.0 smn was that bad.

Most people will go back to their mains in a month. This happens every single expansion, especially with DPS characters. There are a lot of people playing PCT and VPR right now.

This includes players who normally heal or tank. Once the newness wears off most people will go back to what they normally play.

[Selvokaz]

This is fine, i see no fire here needing to be put out, lets let it play out as is shall we, no need to fix viper, no need to fix pictomancer, focus on making healers great again instead.

[Sequora]

cDPS is the better metric to use when comparing jobs to one another per FFlogs' on description.



With that in mind, the discrepancy becomes far more apparent. Picto is top DPS even amongst the melee. Where they to buff Black Mage to a comparable level, you'd legitimately have zero reason to bring any of the phys range since a double melee/caster comp would deal higher damage in spite of the party buff.

Even using cDPS, it has the top spot in one of the two ex fights, with it being in 6th place in the other trial with VPR being about 500 ahead.

The other trial, PCT is in first in terms of cDPS, but the top 4 are within 300 damage of one another.

The biggest outlier is BLM, which is much lower than it should be.

[Rithy255]

Hot take other then BLM issues i think picto being above melees is fine.

I think BLM/Picto should be top dps, So i would like it if BLM was buffed to pictos level.