Pictomancer is insanely overtuned and needs to be fixed before savage drops.

[Selvokaz]

This is fine, i see no fire here needing to be put out, lets let it play out as is shall we, no need to fix viper, no need to fix pictomancer, focus on making healers great again instead.

[Sequora]

cDPS is the better metric to use when comparing jobs to one another per FFlogs' on description.



With that in mind, the discrepancy becomes far more apparent. Picto is top DPS even amongst the melee. Where they to buff Black Mage to a comparable level, you'd legitimately have zero reason to bring any of the phys range since a double melee/caster comp would deal higher damage in spite of the party buff.

Even using cDPS, it has the top spot in one of the two ex fights, with it being in 6th place in the other trial with VPR being about 500 ahead.

The other trial, PCT is in first in terms of cDPS, but the top 4 are within 300 damage of one another.

The biggest outlier is BLM, which is much lower than it should be.

[Rithy255]

Hot take other then BLM issues i think picto being above melees is fine.

I think BLM/Picto should be top dps, So i would like it if BLM was buffed to pictos level.

[Supersnow845]

Melees shouldn’t just be first by default they should actually have to fight for the top spot

If you want to say “PCT should be below SAM/VPR because PCT has non damage utility that the those 2 don’t” (such as the heal on star prism and tempra grassa) that’s a fair point to have. But there isn’t really justification to put it below the other 4 melee as they have similar utility in different forms

PCT is totally fine sitting lower melee in aDPS upper melee in rDPS because like BLM it’s competing for both the caster slot and the 4th open slot

[Poppet]

I don't never remember a time where ppl took two BLM over a smn or Rdm. I was a smn main back in shb never once did I see pfs not have a smn or Rdm. I remember very well having to hurt for over a hour for a spot bc most pfs had already had a smn or Rdm in them.

So no I don't think you see dual Picto especially if they end up nerfing it to have smn/Rdm numbers. Even if it's popular. Ppl will still want a rez mage over any other caster and most likely rather have a BLM or a 2nd melee in the flex spot over a heavy nerfed pico. The fact is Picto will always lose out to a smn or Rdm bc it doesn't have a rez meaning the only way ppl will want one is if it has similar DPS as a non selfish melee job.

BLM was the most used caster in Eden's Gate up to the point they fixed 5.0 smn and gave it more damage. This was back in a era where having less people alive made the mechanics easier not impossible and damage that much more important as a result. Picto does enough damage to warrant not taking a melee dps and possibly use two. Fights with bad melee uptime in particular will see picto as the top dps. Consider they're using smaller hitboxes again for Black Cat this will become an incredibly realistic outcome.

[Sunako]

PCT should do similar dps to melee, they are fighting from 4th spot like BLM, maybe they are little bit overtuned.
BLM is currently weak. It is obvious, BLM need buff right now the most.
RDM is probably fine
SMN is probably bit too weak, since they are weaker ress mage than RDM.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

BLM was the most used caster in Eden's Gate up to the point they fixed 5.0 smn and gave it more damage. This was back in a era where having less people alive made the mechanics easier not impossible and damage that much more important as a result. Picto does enough damage to warrant not taking a melee dps and possibly use two. Fights with bad melee uptime in particular will see picto as the top dps. Consider they're using smaller hitboxes again for Black Cat this will become an incredibly realistic outcome.

Yeah as long they don't nuke pico dam but most of the ppl who wants nerfs to pico wants it to be nuke to rdm/smn levels. If that happens they wont be picked over a 2nd melee even if melee uptime is bad. Thats the point most of us are trying to make here that for pico to have a chance going forward it need to do dps close to a nonSAM/VRP melee dps. Meaning it needs to stay near MNK/RPR/NIN/DRG levels of damage. If it gets knocked down to RDM/SMN levels no one will want it and just take a a rez mage for the rez and BLM/2nd Melee for the flex spot. Im fine with picto being slightly nerf and BLM getting a deserve buff but Im not fine with nuking the picto to be worst smn/rdm. We finally have a caster who doesn't have to deal with the whole rez tax and be a good middle ground between RDM/SMN and BLM but ppl want to ruin that bc they don't want a another caster have similar numbers to a melee. I said it once and I will continue to say it...caster is the worst balance role in ff14 all bc of the dumb rez tax. I still want ff14 to delete smn/rdm rez so balancing this role is better. You don't see this issue with melee bc melee doesn't have to deal with a rez tax.

[CaedemSanguis]

Yeah as long they don't nuke pico dam but most of the ppl who wants nerfs to pico wants it to be nuke to rdm/smn levels. If that happens they wont be picked over a 2nd melee even if melee uptime is bad. Thats the point most of us are trying to make here that for pico to have a chance going forward it need to do dps close to a nonSAM/VRP melee dps. Meaning it needs to stay near MNK/RPR/NIN/DRG levels of damage. If it gets knocked down to RDM/SMN levels no one will want it and just take a a rez mage for the rez and BLM/2nd Melee for the flex spot. Im fine with picto being slightly nerf and BLM getting a deserve buff but Im not fine with nuking the picto to be worst smn/rdm. We finally have a caster who doesn't have to deal with the whole rez tax and be a good middle ground between RDM/SMN and BLM but ppl want to ruin that bc they don't want a another caster have similar numbers to a melee. I said it once and I will continue to say it...caster is the worst balance role in ff14 all bc of the dumb rez tax. I still want ff14 to delete smn/rdm rez so balancing this role is better. You don't see this issue with melee bc melee doesn't have to deal with a rez tax.

well, pct have party's utility + raid buff
picto should be a bit behind RPR/DRG/NIN/etc

for the caster spot, group will need to choose between : blm = max damage (and by max damage, I mean blm adps > picto rdps), pct = high damage with utility, smn = low dmg but rez, rdm = very low damage but free rez

for the highest adps class, to my mind it should be : viper (hard positional + no shield) > blm (long cast + lack of mobility) > sam (shield + less positional to do compared to viper), but it's just my opinion, as long as those 3 have the highest adps (mch should be a bit behind since ranged)

[MrJPtheAssassin]

well, pct have party's utility + raid buff
picto should be a bit behind RPR/DRG/NIN/etc

for the caster spot, group will need to choose between : blm = max damage (and by max damage, I mean blm adps > picto rdps), pct = mid damage but utility, smn = low dmg but rez, rdm = very low damage but free rez

for the highest adps class, to my mind it should be : viper (hard positional + no shield) > blm (long cast + lack of mobility) > sam (shield + less positional to do compared to viper), but it's just my opinion, as long as those 3 have the highest adps (mch should be a bit behind since ranged)

Here is the thing, this community time after time has proven they value the caster rez over anything else. RDM/SMN will always be an auto pick for the caster spot bc they have rezs. The reason why? Because that is the only really unique and useful thing they have. All the other jobs unilities and buffs are the same and pico is no different. Say one unique utility that pico brings over any of the other non-selfless jobs in the game? Its buff is the same as smn,and rdm buffs, it one heal ability pretty much the same as smn heal, its shield is nothing super and it has a long cooldown. So when it boils down to picking a caster it will always be better to take a smn or RDM, especially if pico dam is the same as those. As for the flex spot most will want either a BLM for the pure dam or a job that has similar dps of a melee. If Pico does lower dam than rpr/mnk/nin/drg and the party is picking from these jobs for 4th spot, they will take the job with the best dps out of them since their buffs and utilities are all the same. Why take a low dam pico over any of those other melees? They offer the same buffs and unities so you pick based on the dps of the jobs.

[Supersnow845]

PCT’s utility isn’t really worth the loss of rezz if PCT falls behind the utility melee (MNK/NIN/DRG). PCT needs to squarely be fighting for the 4th slot with the 6th melee and be close enough to BLM (or exceeding BLM it’s not like rDPS jobs exceeding aDPS jobs at the top end is unusual) to also justify the caster spot as “lose rezz for more damage”

Putting it around the lower melee for aDPS and near the 3 true selfish jobs for rDPS is perfectly reasonable