Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[Hallarem]

DT wasnt as bad as the effect of Game of Thrones season 8, which soiled the rest of the series. But another similarly badly written MSQ for 9.0 might just do that.

[CuteBucket]

DT wasnt as bad as the effect of Game of Thrones season 8, which soiled the rest of the series. But another similarly badly written MSQ for 9.0 might just do that.

This is why I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic. Dawntrail SUCKED, flat out, but it was also mostly (for better and worse) a fully self-contained story. The only thing that happened that isn't resolved is what to do with the people of Alexander now that they're stuck on the Source (could be interesting, or could be terrible, could be mid, time will tell) and how to handle the inter-dimensional grail thingy the plot dropped on our heads. I still adore what came before (well, certain issues with Endwalker aside) and this hasn't killed that love I have for the game...yet. But they're on thin ice.

Don't squander this game's legacy, SE. Respect the writers and the established lore that came before. Things can get better, but only if there is time and care and respect put in from the top down, which I felt was really lacking this time around.

[Daralii]

This is why I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic. Dawntrail SUCKED, flat out, but it was also mostly (for better and worse) a fully self-contained story. The only thing that happened that isn't resolved is what to do with the people of Alexander now that they're stuck on the Source (could be interesting, or could be terrible, could be mid, time will tell) and how to handle the inter-dimensional grail thingy the plot dropped on our heads. I still adore what came before (well, certain issues with Endwalker aside) and this hasn't killed that love I have for the game...yet. But they're on thin ice.

Don't squander this game's legacy, SE. Respect the writers and the established lore that came before. Things can get better, but only if there is time and care and respect put in from the top down, which I felt was really lacking this time around.

Yoshida said in an interview that DT's reception was about what he expected, so the MSQ was apparently expected to flop and they were content to ship it that way despite the story being one of the main elements that the game used to ride to success. Based on that and how far in advance they work, I don't think there's much chance of a turnaround unless the financials are really that bad(and they might be based on his more recent "We're working on it, please don't retire" comment), and even then it wouldn't be until 7.3 at the earliest.

[jameseoakes]

Yoshida said in an interview that DT's reception was about what he expected, so the MSQ was apparently expected to flop and they were content to ship it that way despite the story being one of the main elements that the game used to ride to success. Based on that and how far in advance they work, I don't think there's much chance of a turnaround unless the financials are really that bad(and they might be based on his more recent "We're working on it, please don't retire" comment), and even then it wouldn't be until 7.3 at the earliest.

The please don't retire comment really makes me wonder how bad things might be for them to say that

[Rhivryn]

Just adding my voice to the cacophony, but i loved the Dawntrail story, tho I agree with some of the OP's criticisms (such as lack of combat/varied gameplay in general) but disagree they make DT "the worst" or the fact that they imply 6.0 and ARR are 'bad.'

My biggest criticism with the story was:
*I wanted more with Valigarmanda, he was my fave part of the story, I loved him so much. I listened to his boss music for a week straight. But the transition from him being set free to us going to fight him....he's like gone. There needed to be a cutscene or two of him rampaging across the countryside. Also, killing him off immediately just felt like wasted potential, to me. I dunno. I wanted more. (reluctant Midgardsormr 2.0? optional dialogue if you've done the four lord story line where you can have him go be with them and not be an arse instead of dying? i know xiv has never done that, just a stray thought I had typing this.)

*The final area was great (imo) if a bit slow; but from finishing the zone story to before the final Dungeon; Sphene makes zero comment on anything we did at all? Like if you cut out the entire final zone, and just teleported from the Gate in the Cenote to the door of the Final Dungeon, Sphene's motivation and dialogue virtually don't change? She made zero acknowledgment to any action we took in the final area; so to me, it felt rushed and half-implemented in regards to her writing specifically? And her "goodbye" death scene felt like it didn't really resolve anything? I dunno.

*Zorall Ja becoming the villain was whatever to me, I thought his little punk assistant was gonna have a bigger role (I legit thought he might be a sundered Ascian for a bit), and I thought him just being unceremoniously disposed of halfway through was a waste of good villain potential.

*MY BIGGEST CRITICISM was the way they handled other people's reactions towards the WoL?!?!? When you are directly referenced by the other characters, usually the Scions or ERENVILLE; they constantly refer to you as if you're some kind of bloodthirsty mongrel who's barely keeping their bloodlust in check? Or some avatar of unrelenting violence, and I'm always caught off guard by it?! MY CHARCTER IS NOT LIKE THAT WTF? I'm playing a Monk, yes I can beat you up with my fists, but the whole point is like, knowing when not to fight, and protecting others, self-enrichment/enlightenment; and Erenville casually just being like "I know how much you want to, but please don't murder these people tee hee, it might get us in trouble!" and im like....THAT IS NOT WHO MY WOL IS! And it's weird because the Scions are supposed to be these scions of Justice, protecting people to their cost of their own lives; why would they associate with like, an unfettered raging violence machine, and treat them like Besties, if that were the case? It's very bizarre to me. I hated when they did that.

Otherwise, I loved everything else, including Wuk Lamat.

[Allegor]

Yoshida said in an interview that DT's reception was about what he expected, so the MSQ was apparently expected to flop and they were content to ship it that way despite the story being one of the main elements that the game used to ride to success. Based on that and how far in advance they work, I don't think there's much chance of a turnaround unless the financials are really that bad(and they might be based on his more recent "We're working on it, please don't retire" comment), and even then it wouldn't be until 7.3 at the earliest.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, he expressed he knew it'd have mixed reactions because of it being a new start, new overarching story, new setting, new characters, WoL/the Scions taking a backseat, etc. None of that is bad in itself, I daresay Dawntrail msq is actually good on paper.... but the delivery was atrocious. The pacing is bad, the plot is full of holes and contrivances, characters are underdeveloped, nearly no combat aside from dungeons and trials made it feel boring at times (this is a game, not a VN), Wuk Lamat was given so much spotlight she's rightfully called a Mary Sue, I can go on and on.

[Malganis_L]

The whole plot around Alexander having a child king forced on it whos a puppet of another monarch just seems so badly thought through, I just struggle to see how they won't get that to feel terrible

wouldnt be the first time i feel like the villian in Dawntrail...

Congratulations everyone, we are getting more Wuk Lamat in the patch (notes) and the... hereditary ruler child of solution 9 / clone of Zoraal Ja and we get a glimpse into Zoraal Ja's ... past? Instead of glimpsing into his past in in the main MSQ while he was still relevant? Oooof.

Hard times ahead. (Honestly I don't mind the kid, but I hope they don't have him declared king without pushback. I sure as heck would protest if some foreign ruler savior or not would come in and be like "Hey guys, this is your new king and I'm his new guardian, Wuk Lamat awayyyyyyy")

[Honalee]

Here are your points that are the biggest that the Dev team need to fix in the next expansion, first:

The visual novelization of FF14 has never been worse.
You can go on for hours without hitting a single combat ability other than Sprint in the MSQ. Combat instances are far and few between. We had one at Lv92, Lv95, and Lv98... and that's it.
FF14 is supposed to be a video game, not a visual novel.

Indeed. there was SIGNIFICANTLY more time just watching cutscenes and really story than actual gameplay. Now don't get me wrong, I love story and story is the biggest facet that makes FFXIV a leader over the rest. But this point here is where the Devs of FFXIV could play some World of Warcraft and get some ideas on how to better implement combat and gameplay into the MSQ.

Probably the most memorable quest from Endwalker was the one from Garlemald where the player was put into a Garlean soldier and had to run to safety to find their own (player character) body. There was NOTHING on this level in Dawntrail. The MSQ in Dawntrail left me almost salivating for the fetch and kill quests we had in ARR. The actual "gameplay" of the MSQ has never been worse.

Even when we did get some of those quests, it was kill two of these or three of those, instead of the normal 5 or 6, etc we had in the past... And then long droughts until the next short gameplay morsel. Seriously, the Devs need to play some other MMOs and lift some of the questing "gameplay" mechanics from these other MMOs and implement more of that into the next expansions. This lack of "gameplay" in the MSQ also hugely amplified shortcomings in the story and made that an even worse experience.

Secondly, this:

Wuk Lamat is obnoxious and should not have been the protagonist.

This character was an absolute anchor to this expansion story, and not in a good way... A "ball and chain" kind of way that we had to constantly have this character drug around with us the entire MSQ. Again the Dev team needs to go back and revisit what made the MSQ and the story of the main player character its biggest strength.

We've always had points in this MMO where the NPCs have been with us through quests and stories, but it's to amply the Main Character's story, not the other way around. The NPCs come in and out of the Main Player character's journey and become part of their journey, not the other way around. And in this expansion, the Main Player became essentially an NPC chaperone to Wuk Lamat, and to a lesser degree Erenville, who was also a complete brude the entire expansion.

I hope like other expansion in the past, the next expansion leaves these two NPC characters in a cloud of dust and moves far away from them both. They were both such a huge drag on the story, and the devs need to go back to the kind of MSQ and NPC relationship to it that has worked so well in the past.

[Maltothoris]

One big thing for me was something Wuk Lamat said after the whole recording with Galool Ja

Wuk Lamat: ...You may find it hard to believe, but until the rite of succession, Zoraal Ja was a good brother to me. Always. And I thought that Papa was the best father anyone could ask for.
Wuk Lamat: I don't want to think the time we spent together as a family was a lie. But by the same token, the bitterness my brother harbored was all too real...

The one moment that maybe could of suggested this was Zoraal Ja calling Wuk by Lamayti after his trial but it still too little, too late. Imagine if he had helped us secretly when she was kidnappped. Or any other possible moment throughout the msq where there could of been a deeper or better connection but now it's them trying to give Zoraal Ja something which won't really stick now that he's dead.

[Loggos]

*MY BIGGEST CRITICISM was the way they handled other people's reactions towards the WoL?!?!? When you are directly referenced by the other characters, usually the Scions or ERENVILLE; they constantly refer to you as if you're some kind of bloodthirsty mongrel who's barely keeping their bloodlust in check? Or some avatar of unrelenting violence, and I'm always caught off guard by it?! MY CHARCTER IS NOT LIKE THAT WTF? I'm playing a Monk, yes I can beat you up with my fists, but the whole point is like, knowing when not to fight, and protecting others, self-enrichment/enlightenment; and Erenville casually just being like "I know how much you want to, but please don't murder these people tee hee, it might get us in trouble!" and im like....THAT IS NOT WHO MY WOL IS! And it's weird because the Scions are supposed to be these scions of Justice, protecting people to their cost of their own lives; why would they associate with like, an unfettered raging violence machine, and treat them like Besties, if that were the case? It's very bizarre to me. I hated when they did that.

I agree with this. I feel like it's a continuation of the writers' insistence that every single WOL is inherently and unchangeably a Zenos* soulmate (no matter what answer we gave him at the end of the universe) and that just doesn't work with a character that is basically your OC.
Yes, your WOL is your OC. The argument that some people make that the WOL is not truly/fully yours is silly. Writers obviously have to set some very rudimentary limitations to be able to write the story. E.g., you should be ok with fighting when necessary otherwise a battle-based game doesn't work.

But how you relate to fighting beyond that should be up to you. You can dislike fighting but realise it's necessary so you'll do it, you can feel neutral about it, you can see it merely as a job/a means to an end, you can be a "normal/average" enthusiast or you can live and breathe for fighting and crave it like nothing else.

So yeah, the scions who have been with you for such a long time treating you like that is kind of grating.

* (If you relate to Zenos I'm not here to dismiss that at all. My point is just that this should be up to every player indivdually because it's a very specific characterisation that just doesn't work for everyone. If it was just about liking the thrill of the battle I have many other characters to relate to (and that I personally connect with much better) like Estinien, Gulool Ja Ja, etc. Zenos' relationship with battles is much more specific/distinct than that and writers should't try to force an ultra-specific characterisation on a blank-slate-character.)